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Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:13 pm
by seeker242
Not a precepts violation. However, just because it's not a precepts violation does not mean it's not bad to do. Cigarettes are obviously bad for health. If "carelessly unhealthy" is all that is needed to qualify as a violation, then thousands of other things would also qualify. For example, McDonald's hamburger eaters are careless in that they carelessly disregard the health effects of eating McDonald's hamburger when the craving for a McDonald's hamburger arises. That does not mean eating McDonalds hamburgers all the time is breaking the precepts.

Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:09 pm
by budo
The Buddha always prefers less rather than more, you should err on the side of austerity, not luxury.

"Suppose that I had eaten and refused more food, being full, and having had as much as I needed. And there was some extra alms-food that was going to be thrown away. Then two mendicants were to come who were weak with hunger. I’d say to them: ‘Mendicants, I have eaten and refused more food, being full, and having had as much as I need. And there is this extra alms-food that’s going to be thrown away. Eat it if you like. Otherwise I’ll throw it out where there is little that grows, or drop it into water that has no living creatures.’

Then one of those mendicants thought: ‘The Buddha has eaten and refused more food. And he has some extra alms-food that’s going to be thrown away. If we don’t eat it he’ll throw it away. But the Buddha has also said: “Be my heirs in the teaching, not in material things.” And alms-food is a kind of material thing. Instead of eating this alms-food, why don’t I spend this day and night weak with hunger?’ And that’s what they did.

Then the second of those mendicants thought: ‘The Buddha has eaten and refused more food. And he has some extra alms-food that’s going to be thrown away. If we don’t eat it he’ll throw it away. Why don’t I eat this alms-food, then spend the day and night having got rid of my hunger and weakness?’ And that’s what they did.

Even though that mendicant, after eating the alms-food, spent the day and night rid of hunger and weakness, it is the former mendicant who is more worthy of respect and praise. Why is that? Because for a long time that will conduce to that mendicant being of few wishes, content, self-effacing, easy to look after, and energetic. So, mendicants, be my heirs in the teaching, not in material things. Out of compassion for you, I think: ‘How can my disciples become heirs in the teaching, not in material things?’” "

Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:37 pm
by Laurens
I think the debate here over whether or not tobacco is a violation of the 5th precept is irrelevant.

Maybe they should make Dhamma warnings on cigarette boxes:

"The fruits of all my actions, both wholesome and unwholesome, skillful and unskillful, I will inherit"

Make your choice, but don't pretend you'll cheat the smoking game and end up with something good from it. So far as I can tell vape pens and such are far less harmful, but not without health risks. I would suggest moving to vaping as an aid to quitting rather that a healthy way to smoke.

Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:41 am
by Dinsdale
budo wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:58 am
Coffee can lead to carelessness. Coffee increases restlessness, one can become irritable which can lead to agitation, wrong speech, etc..
Sure, both nicotine and coffee can lead to restlessness. I was observing that stimulants like nicotine and coffee tend to wake you up, and are therefore less likely to lead to carelessness than depressants like alcohol.

Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:47 am
by rightviewftw
apparently even entertainment causes heedlessness;
"Apparently, headman, I haven't been able to get past you by saying, 'Enough, headman, put that aside. Don't ask me that.' So I will simply answer you. Any beings who are not devoid of passion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of passion, focus with even more passion on things inspiring passion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Any beings who are not devoid of aversion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of aversion, focus with even more aversion on things inspiring aversion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Any beings who are not devoid of delusion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of delusion, focus with even more delusion on things inspiring delusion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Thus the actor — himself intoxicated & heedless, having made others intoxicated & heedless — with the breakup of the body, after death, is reborn in what is called the hell of laughter.

Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:48 am
by Dinsdale
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:47 am
apparently even entertainment causes heedlessness;
I think that's the point of it. :tongue:

Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:03 pm
by manas
Strive4Karuna wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:14 pm
I have read on this forum that smoking tobacco ciggarettes is not a breach of the 5th precept. Others disagree.

Is smoking tobacco a breach of the 5th precept or not?

How about e-ciggarettes (vaping)?
Does smoking tobacco, or e-cigarettes, cause you to become intoxicated and thus liable to act heedlessly? I've not met anyone who gets intoxicated just from smoking tobacco. All it does is give a very mild, short-term buzz, similar to a cup of coffee, as both are merely stimulants, rather than intoxicants.

Having said that, smoking tobacco is one of the un-healthiest activities I can think of, best avoided as it is also highly addictive. I know because I'm still struggling to give it up fully, and my health has been negatively impacted by all the smoking I did, in the past few years especially. I smoke very little now, but it's darn hard to cease totally. My advice is, avoid it for health reasons. If you never start, you'll never have to quit - and trust me, quitting is tough!

Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:15 pm
by Padipa
budo wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:58 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:53 am
Padipa wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:36 pm
Intoxicants are not allowed--period: hard to believe this can be debated.
It's actually intoxicants which lead to carelessness. Nicotine is a stimulant, rather similar to coffee. Is coffee not allowed?
Coffee can lead to carelessness. Coffee increases restlessness, one can become irritable which can lead to agitation, wrong speech, etc..

it's one of the reasons I try to avoid coffee, it agitates me, messes up my sleep, etc.. and I noticed people who drink coffee suffer the same symptoms even though they're not aware of it.

Also if you ask people who are "pure carnivores" who only eat meat, some of them raw meat, they will definitely say that caffeine is a poison, and they would be right, because it is a defense mechanism used by plants to kill insects. It is a natural pesticide https://books.google.com/books?id=MwpQW ... &q&f=false
We are agreed!

Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:32 am
by mrgrtt123
I always feel like it is bad when you are consuming something that will affect your health in the future.

Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:13 pm
by Baranek13
IMO
No, it's not. It is about confused/drunk/drugged mind in which state we do careless and regrettable things. if you look at this from the point of addictions or unhealthful things then you could include many other possible things like addiction to sugar, salt, fried food, binge watching tv etc etc. 5th precepts is not about a healthy lifestyle. Nor about addictions either.
Arahants could smoke tobacco when offered but did not suffer without it - IMO

Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:36 pm
by zerotime
Btw, on some places there are methods based in hypnosis to leave smoking in only 1 day. I know one smoker who has been finally successful with hypnosis.

Is there some consideration in the Buddhist world, or some literature about hypnosis?.