Theravada and Sex: Sexual Misconduct

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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DooDoot
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Re: Theravada and Sex: Sexual Misconduct

Post by DooDoot »

robertk wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:32 am
mod note:
This topic is leaning into politics a little too much. However, for now I am inclined to let it go as the protagonists are both referencing Buddhist texts and precedents. And the arguments are, I think, of interest to Buddhists in general. Please keep up the general tone of polite debate and insist on keeping a clear Buddhist flavor.
We are like old family members or brothers joined at the hip. :console: The Buddha said:
(3) "In four ways, young householder, should one who gives good counsel be understood as a warm-hearted friend:

(i) he restrains one from doing evil,
(ii) he encourages one to do good,
(iii) he informs one of what is unknown to oneself,
(iv) he points out the path to heaven.

DN 31
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Theravada and Sex: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Ceisiwr »

Dhamma is timeless.
Correct. Indian cultural norms are not.

Plus there is no such thing as "European cultural norms". Today, Europe is strongly culturally divided.
Monogamy is, and now gay marriage is becoming the new cultural norm.


The nonsensical nature of the above idea would be similar to saying: "Instead, Islam should teach best practice within said European cultural norms" or "Instead, Christianity should teach best practice within said European cultural norms". :roll: :?
Islam is a fertility religion. Buddhism is not. Christianity too, and both act upon commandment from God. To go against God is to sin in those religions. We have no such divine law from God as Buddhists, only kamma and nothing with the Buddhadhamma or the law of kamma supports your position. Buddhdhamma is thus more flexible than the theistic religions. The Buddha did not command that arranged marriage is the only way. God did command that marriage is only for a man and a woman, and that homosexuality is sinful. You are comparing apples and pears.
“Bhikkhus, whatever is not yours, abandon it. When you have abandoned it, that will lead to your welfare and happiness. ” SN 35:101

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DooDoot
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Re: Theravada and Sex: Sexual Misconduct

Post by DooDoot »

Ceisiwr wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:49 am
Correct. Indian cultural norms are not.
Yes but what the Buddha taught is not Indian cultural norms.
Ceisiwr wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:49 am
Monogamy is, and now gay marriage is becoming the new cultural norm :roll: .
Muhammad and Olivia are London's most popular baby names. Muhammad and Olivia are the most popular baby names in London according to the Office for National Statistics. In 2017 760 baby boys were given the name Muhammad and 671 baby girls were named Olivia.Sep 21, 2018 :roll:
Ceisiwr wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:49 am
Islam is a fertility religion. Buddhism is not.
Then, ultimately, Buddhism has no future because gay Buddhists won't repopulate white European society.
Ceisiwr wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:49 am
The Buddha did not command that arranged marriage is the only way.
But he did. Its literally written in the suttas & the commentaries as the only way recommanded. :geek:
In five ways, young householder, the parents thus ministered to as the East by their children, show their compassion:

(i) they restrain them from evil,
(ii) they encourage them to do good,
(iii) they train them for a profession,
(iv) they arrange a suitable marriage,
(v) at the proper time they hand over their inheritance to them.

DN 31
:alien:
Last edited by DooDoot on Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Theravada and Sex: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Ceisiwr »

Yes but what the Buddha taught is not Indian cultural norms.
Correct.

Muhammad and Olivia are London's most popular baby names. Muhammad and Olivia are the most popular baby names in London according to the Office for National Statistics. In 2017 760 baby boys were given the name Muhammad and 671 baby girls were named Olivia.Sep 21, 2018 :roll:
And Buddhists have the lowest reproductive rate among all the religious (and I think non-religious) groups. Kind of backs up my point that Islam is a fertility religion whilst the Dhamma is not.
Then, ultimately, Buddhism has no future because gay Buddhists won't repopulate white European society.
Gay men are 5% or less of the population. Gay Buddhists even less. But regardless, I am fine with the Dhamma dying out again if it means that all Buddhists today are able to practice celibacy. I’m not a Mahayanaist

But he did. Its literally written in the suttas & the commentaries as the only way recommanded. :geek:
He advised for parents to arrange good marriages within the cultural norm of arranged marriage. That was how marriage was done back then, and he advised how best to do it.
In five ways, young householder, the parents thus ministered to as the East by their children, show their compassion:

(i) they restrain them from evil,
(ii) they encourage them to do good,
(iii) they train them for a profession,
(iv) they arrange a suitable marriage,
(v) at the proper time they hand over their inheritance to them.

DN 31



“they arrange a suitable marriage

The Dhammic emphasis is the suitable part, less the institution of arranged marriages itself.
“Bhikkhus, whatever is not yours, abandon it. When you have abandoned it, that will lead to your welfare and happiness. ” SN 35:101

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DooDoot
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Re: Theravada and Sex: Sexual Misconduct

Post by DooDoot »

Ceisiwr wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:07 am
And Buddhists have the lowest reproductive rate among all the religious (and I think non-religious) groups. Kind of backs up my point that Islam is a fertility religion whilst the Dhamma is not.
Search Results
Myanmar (Burma)/Fertility rate
2.21 births per woman (2016)

Sri Lanka/Fertility rate
2.05 births per woman (2016)

Bhutan/Fertility rate
2.05 births per woman (2016)

Kuwait/Fertility rate
1.97 births per woman (2016)

Qatar/Fertility rate
1.91 births per woman (2016)

United Arab Emirates/Fertility rate
1.75 births per woman (2016)

:twothumbsup:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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robertk
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Re: Theravada and Sex: Sexual Misconduct

Post by robertk »

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:16 am
Ceisiwr wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:07 am
And Buddhists have the lowest reproductive rate among all the religious (and I think non-religious) groups. Kind of backs up my point that Islam is a fertility religion whilst the Dhamma is not.
Search Results
Myanmar (Burma)/Fertility rate
2.21 births per woman (2016)

Sri Lanka/Fertility rate
2.05 births per woman (2016)

Bhutan/Fertility rate
2.05 births per woman (2016)

Kuwait/Fertility rate
1.97 births per woman (2016)

Qatar/Fertility rate
1.91 births per woman (2016)

United Arab Emirates/Fertility rate
1.75 births per woman (2016)

:twothumbsup:
Thailand /Fertility rate
1.48 births per woman (2016)
Japan/Fertility rate
1.44 births per woman (2016)
Korea/Fertility rate
1.17 births per woman (2016)

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DooDoot
Posts: 8179
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Re: Theravada and Sex: Sexual Misconduct

Post by DooDoot »

robertk wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:29 am
Thailand /Fertility rate
1.48 births per woman (2016)
Possibly but probably unrelated to Buddhism:
Like several other Asian countries, Thailand is ageing rapidly. Birth rates have dropped sharply from more than 6 children per woman in 1960 to 1.5 in 2015, according to World Bank figures.

Various reasons have been put forward to explain the falling birth rate in Thailand, from higher living costs and work commitments to the shift of the population away from farms, where big families are needed, to urban centers.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vale ... SKCN1FY0Z5
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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