How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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rightviewftw
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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:13 am

one_awakening wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:58 pm
A lot of heated discussions start off discussing a topic but reach a point where it's no longer about the topic, but more about winning the argument. I have noticed that I have done this in the past as well.

It occurred to me one day, "Why is it so important to prove to the other person, that I am right and they are wrong?" The answer is, it's not important. The "I am right" self emerges and when someone threatens that self, then we must defend it otherwise that self ceases to be. Even if it means putting forward totally illogical arguments. I must not lose.

I now respond with noble silence. This way, the "I am right" self is replaced with the "I don't need to prove anything to anyone" self. This is a more peaceful state.
i am not even trying to prove them wrong, i try to give them a taste of their own medicine and have them either leave the forum, give up or get banned. I stay within ToS tho. If they take it off-topic i can respond even if it is off-topic because i am not the one who derails it and if they make vain accusations i can respond in same manner, they say no i say yes. That's my new game plan to make it so rediculous that either i or they get or we all get banned.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by JamesTheGiant » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:16 am

one_awakening wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:58 pm
but reach a point where it's no longer about the topic, but more about winning the argument.
Yes! I don't bother reading a topic once it reaches about 3 pages. After that point it is generally the same people bickering on and on, and insulting each other.


TRobinson465
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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by TRobinson465 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:23 am

Im surprised people even get banned on this forum who arent outright anti-Buddhism or something. It seems like almost anything is allowed here.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

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rightviewftw
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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:31 am

TRobinson465 wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:23 am
Im surprised people even get banned on this forum who arent outright anti-Buddhist trolls or something. It seems like almost anything is allowed here.
Insults are about the only thing that gets one banned, especially if directed at mods. Other than that i once got banned for informing of karmic consequences but that was an exception, usually people do not get banned for it even if they do it daily.

Recently moderators have admitted that there is no line between what constitutes trolling and what is Dhamma.
Moderator wrote:
rightviewftw wrote: my point is that the line between what is a legitimate disagreement and what constitutes blatant trolling is non-existent on this board.
You might be right, in that it's a matter of judgement on the part of all concerned, with no appeal to objective truth. But it's more likely to be the result of different perceptions.
It just so happens that there are some people who actually understand the Dhamma here and many more people who really want to learn but this forum is real anything goes kind of forum. It was even worse before, i was horrified late 2017.

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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by TRobinson465 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:01 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:31 am

Other than that i once got banned for informing of karmic consequences but that was an exception, usually people do not get banned for it even if they do it daily.
Yeah but the kamma thing is an actual rule. Other than cursing, clear direct attacks, kammic results, overt anti-Buddhism stuff, and good bye cruel forum stuff anything goes.

although to be fair, i suppose the rules the moderators do enforce are ones that are more difficult to dispute. the rules they "dont" really enforce are extremely open-ended and is difficult to draw a line, so i think they are just being "nice"/lenient. except for that old "vilification of other Buddhist traditions is strictly forbidden" rule that was removed like 2 years ago after i pointed it out. :tantrum: which im pretty sure was removed because it was extremely apparent none of the moderators even came close to bothering to enforce it.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

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rightviewftw
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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:10 am

TRobinson465 wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:01 am
although to be fair, i suppose the rules the moderators do enforce are ones that are more difficult to dispute. the rules they "dont" really enforce are extremely open-ended and is difficult to draw a line, so i think they are just being "nice"/lenient.
Yep, not moderator's fault. As i see it not all of them if anyone is ready or willing to make those judgement calls, not all of them even identify as Buddhists afaik.

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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:47 am

Greetings rightviewftw,

Do you have any intention of keeping your own topic on topic, or should we should it down for you now?

:rules:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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rightviewftw
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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:51 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:47 am
Greetings rightviewftw,

Do you have any intention of keeping your own topic on topic, or should we should it down for you now?

:rules:

Metta,
Paul. :)
Greetings retrofuturist,

we are just discussing strategies and exploring the particulars of the enviroment, it is hard to come up with game theory optimal strats without knowing the particulars of the enviroment.

May you be ever well and happy
:hug: :heart:
(nohomo)

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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:54 am

Greetings,

I'll take that at face value, but let's just say that there's a lot of whinging and moaning from certain people, who aren't doing their cause any favours by exhibiting many of the same behaviours they complain about in others.

Is it so hard just to be decent and civilized? Is it really so complicated?

:shrug:

OK...

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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rightviewftw
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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:07 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:54 am
Greetings,

I'll take that at face value, but let's just say that there's a lot of whinging and moaning from certain people, who aren't doing their cause any favours by exhibiting many of the same behaviours they complain about in others.

Is it so hard just to be decent and civilized? Is it really so complicated?

:shrug:

OK...

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
Being civilized is the best damage control strategy because then instead of 3 pages of arguing there is only 1 page.

However i am exploring long term solutions to eliminate such non-sensical behavior entirely.

I figured that if a person does the same kind of behavior but also has the truth on his side then he cannot lose.

:guns:

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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:16 am

Greetings,
rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:07 am
However i am exploring long term solutions to eliminate such non-sensical behavior entirely.
There is only one person in whom one can ever "eliminate such non-sensical behavior entirely".

It's a delusional authoritarian fantasy to presume it is otherwise.
rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:07 am
I figured that if a person does the same kind of behavior but also has the truth on his side then he cannot lose.
Each one of us are the inheritors of our own kamma (actions). Maybe winning and losing might be delineated in terms of vipaka, rather than new constructions (sankhara)?

Food for thought.

:popcorn:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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rightviewftw
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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:21 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:16 am
Greetings,
rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:07 am
However i am exploring long term solutions to eliminate such non-sensical behavior entirely.
There is only one person in whom one can ever "eliminate such non-sensical behavior entirely".

It's a delusional authoritarian fantasy to presume it is otherwise.
rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:07 am
I figured that if a person does the same kind of behavior but also has the truth on his side then he cannot lose.
Each one of us are the inheritors of our own kamma (actions). Maybe winning and losing might be delineated in terms of vipaka, rather than new constructions (sankhara)?

Food for thought.

:popcorn:

Metta,
Paul. :)
yes you are probably right,
perhaps i am just bored and use it as an excuse to get out of line...

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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by Polar Bear » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:23 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:54 am


I'll take that at face value, but let's just say that there's a lot of whinging and moaning from certain people, who aren't doing their cause any favours by exhibiting many of the same behaviours they complain about in others.


A rare word to use, do you watch GOT?



Sorry in advance, now

:focus:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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mikenz66
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Re: How to deal with ignorant brutes in a discussion

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:33 am

Polar Bear wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:23 am
A rare word to use, ...
Perhaps the term winging is more popular down here with the penguins than up in the north with the bears... :tongue:

:heart:
Mike

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