Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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rightviewftw
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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by rightviewftw » Tue May 01, 2018 2:00 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 1:14 am
The statistics you are referring to sounds like the promiscuous world of gold-digging swingers. Have you been watching those MGTOW videos? Most women are married to a husband or have a stable partner. As of 2006, 55.7% of Americans age 18 and over were married. Then there are those in committed relationships. The 80% women chasing 20% of the men you are referring to would be the hungry ghost ladies desperately chasing anything that shows an interest in them, i.e., the male predators.
about 40 to 50 percent of married couples in the United States divorce. The divorce rate for subsequent marriages is even higher.
While women are at their peak of attractiveness they also cheat more than men.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
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"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by rightviewftw » Tue May 01, 2018 2:02 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 1:56 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 1:53 am
the world of sex
Again, "the world" is not "Dhamma".
Why are you triggered by this research?
mgtows are angry and mostly stupid...

Do you mean that general population stats do not apply to Buddhists?
I am not advocating any kind of sex here at all, if anything i am pointing out how bad of an idea it is to get involved in any kind of sexual relationship...
Last edited by rightviewftw on Tue May 01, 2018 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by DooDoot » Tue May 01, 2018 2:18 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:02 am
Do you mean that general population stats do not apply to Buddhists?
I think a practising Buddhist should be able to do better because that is the purpose of Dhamma. But, sure, the average Western faith follower may be close to the ordinary worldly standards. The Buddha said:
If both husband & wife want to see one another not only in the present but also in the future, they should be in tune [with each other] in conviction, in tune in virtue, in tune in generosity, and in tune in discernment.

AN 4.55
:heart:
rightviewftw wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:02 am
I am not advocating any kind of sex here at all, if anything i am pointing out how bad of an idea it is to get involved in any kind of sexual relationship...
I'm not such a romantic, either. But then, non-sensual happiness was found many years ago.
rightviewftw wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:00 am
While women are at their peak of attractiveness they also cheat more than men.
Women cheat due to old "issues" they carry inside. But women without "issues" don't cheat (Dhp 242). As an aspiring Buddhist, you need to step up and be a gift of safety for the lost women of the world. Be lokuttara (above the world). Because you believe in reincarnation, you think hungry ghost, hell & animal worlds are in a different world rather than in this world of mortals. But the hungry ghosts that burn with hunger, day & night, similar to starving children in Africa, are in the night clubs of this world.

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by rightviewftw » Tue May 01, 2018 2:38 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:18 am
Women cheat due to old "issues" they carry inside. But women without "issues" don't cheat (Dhp 242). As an aspiring Buddhist, you need to step up and be a gift of safety for the lost women of the world. Be lokuttara (above the world).
have you yourself converted to buddhism yet or still with the nibbana in the here and now wanderers?
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by DooDoot » Tue May 01, 2018 2:51 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:38 am
nibbana in the here and now
How will Nibbana after the termination of life be attained if Nibbana in the here & now is not attained. Also, since Nibbana in the here & now is an implicit Buddhist doctrine, to deny it sounds like heresy to me. For me, someone not interest in Nibbana here & now is not interested in Buddhism. Currently, I have one computer screen on work & another here. I spend my day working. DW is just for the spare time. Time to place a heretic on ignore. The suttas say to only teach Dhamma to those interested in Dhamma (AN 9.5).

:anjali:

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by rightviewftw » Tue May 01, 2018 2:56 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:51 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:38 am
nibbana in the here and now
How will Nibbana after the termination of life be attained if Nibbana in the here & now is not attained. Also, since Nibbana in the here & now is an implicit Buddhist doctrine, to deny it sounds like heresy to me. For me, someone not interest in Nibbana here & now is not interested in Buddhism. Currently, I have one computer screen on work & another here. I spend my day working. DW is just for the spare time. Time to place a heretic on ignore.

:anjali:
DN 1 Brahmajala Sutta: The All-Embracing Net of Views It is actually explicitly wrong view, stated as such and explained as wrong view by the Tathagata;
5. Doctrines of Nibbāna Here and Now (Diṭṭhadhammanibbānavāda): Views 58–62

93. "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who maintain a doctrine of Nibbāna here and now and who, on five grounds, proclaim Nibbāna here and now for an existent being. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views?

94. "Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin asserts the following doctrine or view: 'When this self, good sir, furnished and supplied with the five strands of sense pleasures, revels in them — at this point the self attains supreme Nibbāna here and now.' In this way some proclaim supreme Nibbāna here and now for an existent being.

95. "To him another says: 'There is, good sir, such a self as you assert. That I do not deny. But it is not at that point that the self attains supreme Nibbāna here and now. What is the reason? Because, good sir, sense pleasures are impermanent, suffering, subject to change, and through their change and transformation there arise sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair. But when the self, quite secluded from sense pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, enters and abides in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by initial and sustained thought and contains the rapture and happiness born of seclusion — at this point, good sir, the self attains supreme Nibbāna here and now.' In this way others proclaim supreme Nibbāna here and now for an existent being.

96. "To him another says: 'There is, good sir, such a self as you assert. That I do not deny. But it is not at that point that the self attains supreme Nibbāna here and now. What is the reason? Because that jhāna contains initial and sustained thought; therefore it is declared to be gross. But when, with the subsiding of initial and sustained thought, the self enters and abides in the second jhāna, which is accompanied by internal confidence and unification of mind, is free from initial and sustained thought, and contains the rapture and happiness born of concentration — at this point, good sir, the self attains supreme Nibbāna here and now.' In this way others proclaim supreme Nibbāna here and now for an existent being.

97. "To him another says: 'There is, good sir, such a self as you assert. That I do not deny. But it is not at that point that the self attains supreme Nibbāna here and now. What is the reason? It is declared to be gross because of the mental exhilaration connected with rapture that exists there. But when, with the fading away of rapture, one abides in equanimity, mindful and clearly comprehending, and still experiencing happiness with the body, enters and abides in the third jhāna, so that the ariyans announce: "He abides happily, in equanimity and mindfulness" — at this point, good sir, the self attains supreme Nibbāna here and now.' In this way some proclaim supreme Nibbāna here and now for an existent being.

98. "To him another says: 'There is, good sir, such a self as you assert. That I do not deny. But it is not at that point that the self attains supreme Nibbāna here and now. What is the reason? It is declared to be gross because a mental concern, 'Happiness,' exists there. But when, with the abandoning of pleasure and pain, and with the disappearance of previous joy and grief, one enters and abides in the fourth jhāna, which is without pleasure and pain and contains purification of mindfulness through equanimity — at this point, good sir, the self attains supreme Nibbāna here and now.' In this way some proclaim supreme Nibbāna here and now for an existent being.

"This, bhikkhus, the Tathāgata understands... and it is concerning these that those who would rightly praise the Tathāgata in accordance with reality would speak.

99. "It is on these five grounds, bhikkhus, that these recluses and brahmins who maintain a doctrine of Nibbāna here and now proclaim supreme Nibbāna here and now for an existent being. Whatever recluses or brahmins proclaim supreme Nibbāna here and now for an existent being, all of them do so on these five grounds or on a certain one of them. Outside of these there is none.
...
103. "This, bhikkhus, the Tathāgata understands. And he understands: 'These standpoints, thus assumed and thus misapprehended, lead to such a future destination, to such a state in the world beyond.' ...
Ye people should place the heretic on the ignore list.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by Dhammanando » Tue May 01, 2018 11:44 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:56 am
It is actually explicitly wrong view, stated as such and explained as wrong view by the Tathagata;
In the suttas diṭṭhadhamma-nibbāna is in some places a term of censure (as in your quoted passage) but in others it's a term of approval. See for example:

Devadūtasutta, MN iii. 178-87
Dhammakathikasutta, SN. ii. 18
Naḷakalāpīsutta, SN. ii. 115
Dhammakathika and Dutiyadhammakathikasuttas, SN. iii. 163-5
Dhammakathikapucchasutta, SN. iv. 141
Diṭṭhadhammanibbānasutta, AN. iv. 454
Sambodhisutta, AN. iv. 351

  • “Though warned by the divine messengers,
    Full many are the negligent,
    And people may sorrow long indeed
    Once gone down to the lower world.
    But when by the divine messengers
    Good people here in this life are warned,
    They do not dwell in negligence
    But practise well the noble Dhamma.
    Clinging they look upon with fear
    For it produces birth and death;
    And by not clinging they are freed
    In the destruction of birth and death.
    They dwell in bliss for they are safe
    And reach Nibbāna here and now.
    They are beyond all fear and hate;
    They have escaped all suffering.”
    (Devadūta Sutta)

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by rightviewftw » Tue May 01, 2018 2:26 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 11:44 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:56 am
It is actually explicitly wrong view, stated as such and explained as wrong view by the Tathagata;
In the suttas diṭṭhadhamma-nibbāna is in some places a term of censure (as in your quoted passage) but in others it's a term of approval. See for example:

Devadūtasutta, MN iii. 178-87
Dhammakathikasutta, SN. ii. 18
Naḷakalāpīsutta, SN. ii. 115
Dhammakathika and Dutiyadhammakathikasuttas, SN. iii. 163-5
Dhammakathikapucchasutta, SN. iv. 141
Diṭṭhadhammanibbānasutta, AN. iv. 454
Sambodhisutta, AN. iv. 351

  • “Though warned by the divine messengers,
    Full many are the negligent,
    And people may sorrow long indeed
    Once gone down to the lower world.
    But when by the divine messengers
    Good people here in this life are warned,
    They do not dwell in negligence
    But practise well the noble Dhamma.
    Clinging they look upon with fear
    For it produces birth and death;
    And by not clinging they are freed
    In the destruction of birth and death.
    They dwell in bliss for they are safe
    And reach Nibbāna here and now.
    They are beyond all fear and hate;
    They have escaped all suffering.”
    (Devadūta Sutta)
Thank you, it was wrong of me to generalize the sutta position and to assume that Doot's teachers are teaching wrong view, calling them wanderers,i wouldnt know. Sorry about that.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by Cittasanto » Thu May 03, 2018 6:52 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 1:14 am
Cittasanto wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:01 pm
the op does not deal with that, as the situation as presented only indicates a discussion has been had between the two. That is up to those involved to consider.
There are obviously potentially three people involved here, rather than two, unless they discussed the following:
And again up to the couple to discuss. btw there is no theoretical discussion there.


Cittasanto wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:34 pm
The Buddha could have made having multiple partners at the same time a breach of the precept for men, but didn't.
The precept was given together with other Buddhist practises, such as marrying of children, particularly daughters, when they came of age (DN 31).

you are talking about secular practices people at the time who were buddhists engaged in. as the precepts also have to be timeless the buddha would have left them open.
Cittasanto wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:34 pm
the OP talks about biological needs (the desire to reproduce could be called that), hence the situation presented by myself above is a potential. The third party is not even being considered in the op as it is not at that stage. that would be upto the couple.
The OP is obviously referring to having male orgasms but it is you that seeks to create a wholesome veneer by mentioning reproduction. If the man wants to reproduce, he can hire a surrogate mother in a formal businesslike arrangement. [/quote]
it is not obvious that is all that is meant unless you read it narrowly. there are other possibilities and orgasm isn't required for ejaculation or impregnation to happen.
Cittasanto wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:34 pm
No 3rd person discussed
If there is no 3rd person, how could the husband & wife discuss having sex with a 3rd person, unless they were discussing rupa khandha below:
you need to read that comment in timeframe of things. I am mainly dealing with the question posed exclusively. you are presuposing negativity, hence when I wrote that I pointed out the situation would not necesarily involve a sex slave and could be mutually benefiscial.

Cittasanto wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:34 pm
you seam to think it would not be a mutually benefiscial situation for all involved.
This statement is obviously wrong view in Buddhism; in that you assert an action motivated solely by sexual lust is "beneficial" according to Buddhism. Clearly what you have posted here is completely the opposite of the literal Buddhist teachings. :roll:
and as pointed out not everyone is aiming to practice as a mendicant and need to deal with worldly situations.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by LuisR » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:25 pm

What about if you are out of town and you have an encounter with a woman that knows you are married. If your wife doesn't ask how bad would this be??

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by Cittasanto » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:31 pm

LuisR wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:25 pm
What about if you are out of town and you have an encounter with a woman that knows you are married. If your wife doesn't ask how bad would this be??
The op has a context of the couple both being involved in the discussion. So without that context it would be lying to the wife and a breach of that precept. However it can also be assumed that it is not an open relationship sexually so would be a breach of the sexual misconduct precept if that was the case
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by egon » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:26 pm

IMHO: Yes, our species, like all other living things, has an instinct to reproduce. The complexity of sexual desire in humans is made so by our capacity to experience complex emotions and our need to process our experiences collaboratively.
The sapient nature of our species also means that we have the ability to adjust ourselves, to modify our interactions with the world around us so that we can reduce the suffering caused by NOT satisfying our evolutionary instinctual needs. Evolution doesn't care if we are dissatisfied, in fact, our species would most likely not have propogated so successfully without the dissatisfaction that causes us to strive for more, better, etc. But we have found that the very thing that makes us human, the capacity for emotional suffering that only we can experience, is also the thing that allows us to NOT suffer.
If the man in the OP is a dhamma practitioner, he has the resources and tools at hand to reject his "biological need" and act with compassion for his wife- and not suffer as a result.

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by manas » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:13 pm

steve19800 wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:45 am
Hi guys,

There is a true story where a couple just got married. Soon after marriage, the wife is diagnosed with certain illness by the doctor. To make it short, because of the illness, the wife is not allowed to have sexual intercourse. The husband, however, got permission from his wife that, if needed, he can have sexual intercourse with other woman to meet his biological need.

In this particular case, if the husband has sexual intercourse with other woman, does he break the 3rd precept? There are many answers to this question, since not all situations included in the Sutta, how do we know if the husband is breaking the third precept or not? Any thoughts will be great. Thanks!
Since this is a 'true story', could you kindly provide a link to the original, so we know the context and other details of it, before offering opinions?
Drinking the nourishment,
the flavor,
of seclusion & calm,
one is freed from evil, devoid
of distress,
refreshed with the nourishment
of rapture in the Dhamma.

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Re: Sexual intercourse with other woman with the consent of wife

Post by TRobinson465 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:02 am

manas wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:13 pm
steve19800 wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:45 am
Hi guys,

There is a true story where a couple just got married. Soon after marriage, the wife is diagnosed with certain illness by the doctor. To make it short, because of the illness, the wife is not allowed to have sexual intercourse. The husband, however, got permission from his wife that, if needed, he can have sexual intercourse with other woman to meet his biological need.

In this particular case, if the husband has sexual intercourse with other woman, does he break the 3rd precept? There are many answers to this question, since not all situations included in the Sutta, how do we know if the husband is breaking the third precept or not? Any thoughts will be great. Thanks!
Since this is a 'true story', could you kindly provide a link to the original, so we know the context and other details of it, before offering opinions?
why does it have to be online? couldnt it be a true story from one of his personal friends?
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