Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Samana Johann 1
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Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:40 am

Making use of the generosity of exceptional leave to remain, again just in trust that given, wished and enjoyed, althought not really expressed and therefore certain uncomfortable:

Venerable members of the Saṅgho dwelling here or coming accross,
Venerable fellows on the path in front, _/ _ _/ _ _/ _ , venerable fellows,
Valued Upāsaka, Upāsikā,
Dear Buddhabodhisattas,

my person takes leave to share some merits and give them as an open-source in Dhamma (of cource not for trade or exchange for the common worlds gains) for further possibility or merits for all of you wishing to practice a most importand aspect of Sila, apacāyana, by the possibility to give in times, knowledge and skill as well.
My person asks, for the benefit of many, to possible correct and fill missing graps, if the Venerable members of the Saṅgha, out of compassion are here given of possibilities.

Of course everybody may also make use of other given possibilities to work on the topic.

Here just the into text, the whole work can be found here: Respect and veneration
Paying Respect or Veneration (also regard, obeisance, high esteem, honour, admiration) (pi apacāyana, apa + cāy root pūja = abound, scarify; verb apaciti; gārava) , is the fourth of the traditional listed ten skilful/meritorious deeds (pi puññakiriya-vatthus), a practice which would be maintained beginning in childhood within families and societies in Buddhist environments. Within the three major kinds meritorious deeds (dāna, sīla, bhāvana) it counts to the virtue group as an aspect of sila. More known accesses, which will be maybe not suddenly regarded as aspects of respect, is the Refuge into the Three Jewels, honour and respect as the access point into the Dhamma and one of the Four Sublime Attributes (brahma vihara), Mudita, often translated as sympathy joy or appreciation. Mudita means joy and appreciation, and with it respect, in regard of one own goodness that one has developed and that of others.
If one is skilled in transforming it pleasant into format of the enviroments language, please feel free as well.

Since it is a very undeveloped topic - this formost Sila of the Buddhas disciples, the refuge - but at the same time releases a lot of certain doubts of strange seeming traditional ways of practice, not by only venerating of what is worthy to give one self into, does this topic contain a huge ground of merits and access to the deathlessness.

In regard of renewing this Sila, and confessions, traditional tools, especially for lay people, the unproffesional work is still less developed.

Anumodana!

Much joy for all capable to nurish higher mind with it and may the Devas inform those, having not had physical touch of it.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by JamesTheGiant » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:52 am

Greetings Venerable, and may I pay my respex and venerationz to you.
I am curious, are you using Google Translate to post here?
:anjali:

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Re: Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:16 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:52 am
Greetings Venerable, and may I pay my respex and venerationz to you.
I am curious, are you using Google Translate to post here?
:anjali:
Sadhu
Abhivādana-sīlissa
Niccaṃ vuḍḍhāpacāyino
Cattāro dhammā vaḍḍhanti
Āyu vaṇṇo sukhaṃ, balaṃ.
... and even path and fruits, just by that, having yonisomanasikāra and given cause of access concentration by mudita or having Vision of release arising, forgetting to hold on the aggregats, absorbed in proper nimitta.

Better and more secure is to keep the Noble Sangha in mind, Nyom James, although "personal" could excel all other merits, it bears a lot of danger, even to increase demerits.
No, my person would not like to make use of not really given and prefers to give possibilities (to does wishing to and not companies) rather then pleasing chances, even hidden dependency-traps , to consume on pleasant, signs, sound...ideas . If there are places which causes uncertainty, let my person know, to possible give further into.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by JamesTheGiant » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:47 am

Samana Johann 1 wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:16 am
. If there are places which causes uncertainty, let my person know, to possible give further into.
Well, that's good.
Because, and I don't mean to give offense, most of your posts are very hard to understand, to the point of incomprehensibility.
Compared to other people's writings, It takes me about three times longer to read your posts. And I still don't understand a lot of them. Gobbledygook.
If you are using some computer translation, may I respectfully suggest you stop it, and instead focus on your native language?
There is a subforum for that I believe?

Apologies if I offend! I just wanted you to know, if you didn't already.

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Re: Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:18 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:47 am
Samana Johann 1 wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:16 am
. If there are places which causes uncertainty, let my person know, to possible give further into.
Well, that's good.
Because, and I don't mean to give offense, most of your posts are very hard to understand, to the point of incomprehensibility.
Compared to other people's writings, It takes me about three times longer to read your posts. And I still don't understand a lot of them. Gobbledygook.
If you are using some computer translation, may I respectfully suggest you stop it, and instead focus on your native language?
There is a subforum for that I believe?

Apologies if I offend! I just wanted you to know, if you didn't already.
Nyom James,

My person does not use computer translations, but just what he got taught and was able to receive. That is all all native. It's importand to learn other kinds language and thinking, and give into it. And it's probably not mainly just not understandable problem.

If seeking for my persons gaining possibility in regard of being respected by those who seek after easy go and pleasure, Nyom James advice is surely well meant and possible right, since not gaining what ones seeks for does not increase respect. So it's in many ways not for trade and marked gain. Again, a gift, a possibility. And possible initiation/touch to discover the topic of main, fundamental pratice.

But since my person is not really after serving consume and know that those who seek for hardwood and ways to prepare the road for it, e.g. people after doing merits rather than consume old off, are given possibilities, it good as it is till the point one might find it useful to give into it.
It requires a lot of sacrificing to gain release and there are 1001 reasons why one is not willing to work, sensual desire, ill-will, laziness, doubt, restlessness...
If used to be keeped as a chicken, its difficult, and it's really not a matter of language but arising aversion/greed that keeps us from letting go.

But if wishing and seeing possibilities, what could not be understood? Which part? And since open source for meritious deeds, there is no holding on "as it is". Dhamma is gained by giving, by letting go, never by consume and rejoicing in sign, sound,... ideas, sañña off. Such would not last.

One should not think that all this is off topic, since it is all a matter of seeking refuge in certain things, letting go till all five points, aggregates, are on the floor, given up, by body, speech and mind. And the certain object gives possibility to give into it.

There is a good talk in regard of this, maybe useful: Respect, Confidence and Patient

Althought it might sound unpleasant, most are merely just feeding of their past merits, nissaya, to the tripple Gems, rather to increase future reasons.

Again, to gain Dhamma, giving (up) needs to come first. It wouldn't work otherwise. One simply get fat and bound to used food for consume.

Sadhu for the effort reading three times, since a lot has been gained in this way, more than usually or? Think on how many tones have been readed and propably never investigated of what was always denied as fundamental and most importand aspect of the practice if not simply up to cultivate and nurish defilements.

If my person remembers right, Nyom James had spend a lot in a monastery, althought not in Asia (if remember right). Possible lesser training and efforts in serial kinds of veneration, how was the matter for Nyom James? Was it not one of the most difficult, disturbing?

(Btw: Does my person remember right that you have been asked: "can you cook, can you drive?" and after 'yes' on it, have been accepted to go forth? Or was it somebody else my person confuses right now)
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by Meezer77 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:14 pm

I shouldn't laugh, but it's hard 😐

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Re: Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:20 pm

Meezer77 wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:14 pm
I shouldn't laugh, but it's hard 😐
That's kind of giving respect, and to give a share of ones good deeds, letting them having part that it is possible by good choices as well, sadhu!

Blame would be proper if such was an dobble-agents act. So let it be known if having had great success at least, Nyom Meezer.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by Meezer77 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:28 pm

I've got plenty of respect for you Bhante, just not the translation program your using.

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Re: Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:58 pm

Meezer77 wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:28 pm
I've got plenty of respect for you Bhante, just not the translation program your using.
Again, better toward the Noble Ones, then toward a person, Nyom Mezzer and, again, Atma (my person) does not use programs aside of those given (that of which is given) and trained/maintained within saññākkhandha (rememberance) and willingness to put a lot of concentration into it. (and outwardly things like big fingers on a small tablet... not much support by programs and tons of other loosely excuses, maybe reasons) Calling my person poor and ignorant in regard of this not long lasting possession for creation would be not wrong, nevertheless it give opportunities for others to sacrifice if wishing. Poking the stinginess of the many much more talented without an end... counteracting lābha macchariya

It's really much more ground for many to pay respect toward the Gems, Sangha, as a most clean object of sacrify, rather then a single person. There can be many obstacles in certain individuals, out of past kammic issues, lack of Nissaya... can also give much ground for envy/stinginess (kula macchariya) and other unskillful minds arising in others, improper attachment in one self. Not to forget that individual relation between lay people an homeless are not really much developed given by the Buddha and bear therefor certain dangers (remember all the guru issues, especially in later developed traditions).

Ohh... a nice story, although more in the sphere of service, which has it's base here, which gives a good lesson: Father and Son

Not paying respect toward of what should be payed to, is by the way simply vaṇṇā macchariya and holding on it, makes one incapable to reach Jhana, path and fruits.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:35 pm

Some things to consider in regard of respect and a-stinginess on internet: Avatar and User placements. It bears so many dangers and even "need" of bad conscious through transgression. It's dobble not for increasing of faith (into Dhamma, kamma) if even teacher, leader, yes also monks take on comic existences or play role games, "I am nothing" like the Jains or what ever. Pure stinginess such, not willing to train basics and use its protection. Not to speak of even intend of lying here, one might be always subjected walking around in covers.

There is also a short guide on A few general (and everywhere applicable) thoughts, explanations and general remarks about invitations, receiving and also refusing given by Upasaka Moritz (perkele) in good english.

(a story from the past: actually it was by meeting DW that my person started to give a little interest into english, and my person can well remember two gifts: by Upasaka Till, explaining that of course should be written not of cause, to get not off usuall course, and by late Individual, explaining the different of common and commun, someone explained bann, ban, banning, banner, but my person did not get that stored well: so all a further share of generosity once received or gained by giving first.)
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by Meezer77 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:36 pm

ពិតជាសោកស្តាយខ្ញុំមិនយល់ទេ។ ប៉ុន្តែសូមអរគុណ :namaste:

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Re: Paying Respect or Veneration - the unknown very first Sila

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:17 am

No fault at all, Nyom Meezers. It wishing to get right of doubts and ask, feel free to continue on other place, given for such. The occassion and place is not proper here.

On the topic, especially toward the smart youngsters and the smart long time practicing elders, not meeting each other out of reason, are bound to meet each other, be reminded:
http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/mn/mn.135.than_en.html wrote:"There is the case, where a woman or man is ill-tempered & easily upset; even when lightly criticized, he/she grows offended, provoked, malicious, & resentful; shows annoyance, aversion, & bitterness. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is ugly wherever reborn. This is the way leading to ugliness: to be ill-tempered & easily upset; even when lightly criticized, to grow offended, provoked, malicious, & resentful; to show annoyance, aversion, & bitterness.

"But then there is the case where a woman or man is not ill-tempered or easily upset; even when heavily criticized, he/she doesn't grow offended, provoked, malicious, or resentful; doesn't show annoyance, aversion, or bitterness. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is beautiful wherever reborn. This is the way leading to beauty: not to be ill-tempered or easily upset; even when heavily criticized, not to be offended, provoked, malicious, or resentful; nor to show annoyance, aversion, & bitterness.

"There is the case where a woman or man is envious. He/she envies, begrudges, & broods about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, & veneration. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is not influential wherever reborn. This is the way leading to not being influential: to be envious, to envy, begrudge, & brood about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, & veneration.

"But then there is the case where a woman or man is not envious. He/she does not envy, begrudge, or brood about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, or veneration. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, he/she is influential wherever reborn. This is the way leading to being influential: not to be envious; not to envy, begrudge, or brood about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, or veneration.
Those young heros here, you live in dependency, you have wordly leaders here and having become drunken in demo-cracy, oppose your leaders.

Spititual all here live in dependency of the carrier of the heritage. You cut your self of, if not following the 1. unseen Prectept.

Many of you, especially fool having gained skills an knowledge, are actually in hell already but still not able to confess, change ways and able to continue practic.

Again seeming arrogant for you, it's a probably foolish and wasted act of compassion, but at least given for those capable to be healed.

As there is NO justification to break the precept of killing, stealing (banning, deleting) there is no in transgression of this as well. The base of gaining Dhamma is destroyed, the relation gone and it's the duty of a studend, follower, to ask for pardon, since the father did not just like to cut away hindrances, but also force that or those to do everything not to fall away.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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