Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Post by johnB » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:04 pm

I'm in no imminent danger but I wondered what people think regarding suicide. If a person took pains to make their death look accidental (I won't go in to detail it would really be plausible and no one would be blamed/traumatised I.e not like walking in front of a train.) Family would of course be saddened but would not have the guilt of a suicide. Do you think it would be bad kamma? I'm concerned I don't want to hurt others badly or end up in hell but I can't control that. but actually going on living can be more of a source of pain to those you care about in certain circumstances. I won't go in to detail but carrying on living could really devastate those who care about me. My meditation practice has made me aware of deep personal faults.

So in effect is suicide ever noble/good kamma I have to think it can be in certain circumstances.

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Re: Suicide

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:10 pm

johnB, if you are having any such thoughts about harming yourself that you think could result in action, then I urge you to talk to someone - preferably a mental health professional - as soon as possible. Stay safe.

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Re: Suicide

Post by Aloka » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:33 pm

I agree with everything that Sam Vara has said.... and if there's a possiblity that you have an addiction of any kind, johnB, then I think there's a Buddhist organisation in the USA called "Refuge Recovery" which might be worth checking out.


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Re: Suicide

Post by ToVincent » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:43 pm

johnB wrote:Do you think it would be bad kamma?
My meditation practice has made me aware of deep personal faults.

For what I have understood about the position of the Buddha about suicide, is that it has usually to be related to the Teaching, if it has not to be seen as bad khamma.

Committing suicide because one has a love breaking sorrow, or money problems; or because one has comitted a deep fault, might definitely look like bad kamma.

If it is the latter, then you should not worry.
The "yellow robes" that the bhikkhus are wearing are named "kāsāyāni vatthāni".
And suprisingly, कषाय kaṣāya also means: stain or impurity or sin cleaving to the soul - (in the Chandogya Upaniṣad.) - Is that a coincidence? - I don't think so.
The Buddha speaks a lot about "having a sense of shame". (SN 16.7 - SN 1.18 , etc).

Only Mara & friends would tell you that a fault is "uncleanable". It is even a principle of philosophy in certain circles. And I would not call that truly "virtuous circles".

Don't worry about your reputation says also the Buddha (AN 3.101).

And this is also what is said about how to end your previous bad kammā:
“But here, headman, a Tathāgata arises in the world, an arahant, perfectly enlightened, accomplished in true knowledge and conduct, fortunate, knower of the world, unsurpassed leader of persons to be tamed, teacher of devas and humans, the Enlightened One, the Blessed One. In many ways he criticizes and censures the destruction of life, and he says: ‘Abstain from the destruction of life.’ He criticizes and censures the taking of what is not given, and he says: ‘Abstain from taking what is not given.’ He criticizes and censures sexual misconduct, and he says: ‘Abstain from sexual misconduct.’ He criticizes and censures false speech, and he says: ‘Abstain from false speech.’

“Then a disciple has full confidence in that teacher. He reflects thus: ‘In many ways the Blessed One criticizes and censures the destruction of life, and he says: “Abstain from the destruction of life.” Now I have destroyed life to such and such an extent. That wasn’t proper; that wasn’t good. But though I feel regret over this, that evil deed of mine cannot be undone.’ Having reflected thus, he abandons the destruction of life and he abstains from the destruction of life in the future. Thus there comes about the abandoning of that evil deed; thus there comes about the transcending of that evil deed (evametassa pāpassa kammassa samatikkamo hoti).
(Idem for stealing, sexual misconduct, & false speech)
SN 42.8
Straighten up; with a sense of shame.
You'll be the winner..... even if ...

Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
In this world with its ..., māras, ... in this population with its ascetics.... (AN 5.30).
We are all possessed - more or less.
And what, bhikkhu, is inward rottenness? Here someone is immoral, one of evil character, of impure and suspect behaviour, secretive in his acts, no ascetic though claiming to be one, not a celibate though claiming to be one, inwardly rotten, corrupt, depraved. This is called inward rottenness.”
SN 35.241

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Re: Suicide

Post by cappuccino » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:11 pm

johnB wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:04 pm
My meditation practice has made me aware of deep personal faults.
All faults are impersonal.

In truth.

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Re: Suicide

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:21 pm

Greetings John,

You're welcome to discuss suicide here at Dhamma Wheel, but we also have a requirement that when people do so, they are not "expressing intentions of self-harm or suicide" (ToS 3f).

Despite your obvious attempts to craft your original post in a calm and responsible way, you have over-stepped this line somewhat, and given that we're referring to the "original post", it's bound to be a key point of reference throughout the topic.

Thus, I'm going to close this particular topic, but I do invite you to start a new one (or review and add to one of the many existing topics on suicide), should you wish to do so.

All the best.

Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)


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