Spanking Children in Buddhism

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
binocular
Posts: 5454
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by binocular » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:09 am

Santi253 wrote:Does it harm children for them to be in time-out with their hands above their head?
What do you think?
Can you put yourself in the shoes of such a child?

Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by Santi253 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:36 am

binocular wrote:
Santi253 wrote:Does it harm children for them to be in time-out with their hands above their head?
What do you think?
Can you put yourself in the shoes of such a child?
Please tell me what forms of discipline that you think are effective. Is putting children in time-out something that you are against in all circumstances or is it the hands above the head part of it?
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

binocular
Posts: 5454
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by binocular » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:53 am

Santi253 wrote:Please tell me what forms of discipline that you think are effective.
That depends entirely on what the parents want from their child (and why they had the child to begin with).
Effectiveness can only bea assessed in regard to a particular goal.
Is putting children in time-out something that you are against in all circumstances or is it the hands above the head part of it?
I'm not in particular against or for anything, because I think it all depends on what the parents want from their child.

Depending on that goal, some pedagogical approaches will be effective while others won't.

If, for example, the parents want to raise a child that will be a partner in a big law firm by the age of 30, they will need to apply different strategies than parents who want their child to first and foremost be happy in life.

Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by Santi253 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:44 am

I would guess that we are much less strict than many Buddhist parents. In Singapore, South Korea, etc., it's common to spank your children with a cane, hanger, feather duster, etc., for not getting the right grade on a test at school. I could never imagine punishing my children for a grade at school, unless they were to fail a class for the entire semester.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

binocular
Posts: 5454
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by binocular » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:50 am

Santi253 wrote:I would guess that we are much less strict than many Buddhist parents.
Why are you calling them "Buddhist"? What, specifically, is Buddhist about them, other than being born and raised in a country that is traditionally considered "Buddhist"?

Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by Santi253 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:52 am

binocular wrote:
Santi253 wrote:I would guess that we are much less strict than many Buddhist parents.
Why are you calling them "Buddhist"? What, specifically, is Buddhist about them, other than being born and raised in a country that is traditionally considered "Buddhist"?
As parents, we follow the secular law of the United States, while practicing a much less strict form of discipline than what's common in many traditionally Buddhist countries.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

binocular
Posts: 5454
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by binocular » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:54 am

I asked you:

Why are you calling them "Buddhist"?
What, specifically, is Buddhist about them, other than being born and raised in a country that is traditionally considered "Buddhist"?

User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 3736
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:09 am

One will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Skilled parents never spank their children. The Buddha prescribed various punishments for monks who broke the rules, but none of them involve physical beatings, locking up, or withdrawing of food. A monk who has committed a serious offence such as masturbation must request a period of probation and rehabilitation from the Sangha. This involves temporary ostracism, and public confession of his offences. During the probationary period he must not sleep or eat together with other monks.

Making a child stand with the hands up is a cruel punishment that inflicts pain. Making a child stand in the corner wearing a dunce cap (like they used to do long ago) is humiliating, but it is not painful. Beating with canes or leather straps has rightly been prohibited in schools, and should not be used in homes either.

The UK law allows spanking or smacking. It is called "reasonable chastisement."

My personal opinion is that the current law is about right. Smacking your child is not the same as slapping your wife or husband, and not the same as assaulting another adult or someone else's child either.

The law is an ass and deserves to be spanked. Criminalising parents for smacking or spanking their own children is unreasonable. There should be actual bodily harm or psychological trauma to justify charges of child abuse.
AIM ForumsPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by Santi253 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:47 am

binocular wrote:I asked you:

Why are you calling them "Buddhist"?
What, specifically, is Buddhist about them, other than being born and raised in a country that is traditionally considered "Buddhist"?
If someone claims to be Buddhist, I don't usually question whether they are Buddhist or not.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by Santi253 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:50 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Skilled parents never spank their children.
Someone who's never had children might not be accurately making that conclusion. If I could contact a Buddhist parenting organization located in an Asian country, that would be really great.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 3736
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:02 am

Santi253 wrote:Someone who's never had children might not be accurately making that conclusion. If I could contact a Buddhist parenting organization located in an Asian country, that would be really great.
Someone who had twenty children might not draw an accurate conclusion either. I meet a lot of parents, and of course I had parents of my own.
AIM ForumsPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by Santi253 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:05 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Santi253 wrote:Someone who's never had children might not be accurately making that conclusion. If I could contact a Buddhist parenting organization located in an Asian country, that would be really great.
Someone who had twenty children might not draw an accurate conclusion either. I meet a lot of parents, and of course I had parents of my own.
I'm asking if you could please connect me with a Buddhist parenting organization.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

binocular
Posts: 5454
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by binocular » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:20 pm

Santi253 wrote:If someone claims to be Buddhist, I don't usually question whether they are Buddhist or not.
Do you also assume that such a person is also representative of Buddhism?

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5762
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by Aloka » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:44 pm

Santi253 wrote:I would guess that we are much less strict than many Buddhist parents. In Singapore, South Korea, etc., it's common to spank your children with a cane, hanger, feather duster, etc., for not getting the right grade on a test at school. I could never imagine punishing my children for a grade at school, unless they were to fail a class for the entire semester.
Have you actually lived in those countries and seen for yourself how parents treat their children?
Santi253 wrote:As parents, we follow the secular law of the United States, while practicing a much less strict form of discipline than what's common in many traditionally Buddhist countries
Again, how do you know this for sure? Are you just using some random statistics to form your opinions?

The very idea that the people in "many traditional Buddhist countries" all use corporal punishment on their children is tenuous to say the least.

Additionally, as a (non- USA) westerner who is a qualified schoolteacher -which includes counselling troubled teenagers (some of then physically and/or mentally abused and/or neglected by their parents), I 'm wondering ...why is all of this so important to you, Santi253 ?

:anjali:

Circle5
Posts: 878
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:14 am

Re: Spanking Children in Buddhism

Post by Circle5 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:21 pm

Have you actually lived in those countries and seen for yourself how parents treat their children?
Again, how do you know this for sure? Are you just using some random statistics to form your opinions?
What he is saying is true. It's normal in asia. This girl in the video apparently even got hanged upside down from a a tree
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUClsuYGN8U


But western countries can blow this thing out of proportion. For example there was a famous case in my country about the Bodnariu Family: http://bodnariufamily.org/
They were beating their kids a little and rising them up to be christians just like any random romanian family does. And a teacher or somebody from school spoke with them about how things go home and they found out about this. And then the state confiscated their 5 children and refused to give them back even after huge protests by romanians in many european cities. The child protection service operates outside the judicial system and has supreme power over any kids. The kids were taken and kept for years in foster homes without any evidence against their parents, against the children will and without any form of a trial. It's like kids are property of the child department and child protection officers have dictatorial powers, having the right to kidnap kids whenever they want based on their own will, with no rules to stop them and no responsability for what they do. Many such cases have happened and for many years people have been asking for reform.

Obsession with child protection can lead to terrible policies such as those in Norway, leaving a huge door open for religious discrimination. Note: The child department can make them permament wardens of the state or give them for adoption with no trial whatsoever. They are totally independent of the justice system.
Last edited by Circle5 on Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests