Right Speech - lying

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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iHappy
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Right Speech - lying

Post by iHappy » Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:53 pm

My father is an alcoholic, and he is occasionally asking for money. When he ask me do I have money, I say NO, even though I have. That is lying.
However, If I say that I do have and that I don't want to give it to him ( pure truth ) that would lead to conflict.
If I am right, this is a lose-lose situation.

I am just asking, it's not of my greatest concern at this moment.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Right Speech - lying

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:59 pm

Father: "Do you have any money?"

You: "No." What is unspoken: "Not for you and your drinking." Basically, you get to decide if this is a violation of the rule of training of not lying. Keep in mind context and intention play important roles in this.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

iHappy
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Re: Right Speech - lying

Post by iHappy » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:22 pm

Thanks for input.

I've spent some time reading older threads and comments and I have found many interesting answers and I understand this precept much better now. There is no need to obsess myself with this because my intention is good.

When he asked for money to buy medicines, I gave it immediately because I knew he had do buy it. That's what he did :)

JohnK
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Re: Right Speech - lying

Post by JohnK » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:32 pm

Before I read first reply, I was thinking something very similar.
Father: Do you have any money? (barely unspoken, "for me").
You: No (truthful answer).

Based on the context, I was assuming that the father's question was not motivated by a genuine concern about your financial situation.
"...the practice is essentially a practice, and not a theory to be idly discussed...right view leaves unanswered many questions about the cosmos and the self, and directs your attention to what needs to be done to escape from the ravages of suffering." Thanissaro Bhikkhu, On The Path.

practitioner
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Re: Right Speech - lying

Post by practitioner » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:56 pm

You: It is not important if I have money or not. What is important is that you need to think about your health and your family. I love you, and it is hard for me to watch you drink harming your mind and body. Will you stop drinking and get some professional help?

or

You: Do you have love for your family?
You: Why do you keep drinking? If you love your family, you wouldn't be drinking all the time.
Turn around and ask him the question so you never end up having to answer his question. Put the focus back on him to let him reflect on what he is doing?

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khlawng
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Re: Right Speech - lying

Post by khlawng » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:16 pm

most of the post here are spot on.
word plays does nothing but make you feel like you didn't break the precept.
upholding the precept is important.
but not at the expense of the well beings of others and most importantly yourself.
you need to apply wisdom in such situation because,
in reality, we all live in a world where we need to weigh pros and con base on certain values we uphold and the variables we are presented.
this doesn't give you get a free pass to lie or break any of the precepts you took.
just do your best, do what your wisdom tells you and don't look back with regret.
continue cultivating and when the time comes, in this live or next, you will naturally uphold all the precepts and vinaya naturally.

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