Womanizing?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
identification
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Womanizing?

Post by identification » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:35 am

Did the buddha ever discuss this? Is it breaking any of the precepts?

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Kim OHara
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:04 am

"Womanising" as such won't rate a mention in the scriptures but the third precept applies:
3. Kamesu micchacara veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct.
If you search Access to Insight - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index.html - for "sexual misconduct" you will find further guidance.

Womanising will probably also include offences against the fourth and fifth precepts - right speech and sobriety. :thinking:

:namaste:
Kim

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Dhammanando
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by Dhammanando » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:21 am

identification wrote:Did the buddha ever discuss this? Is it breaking any of the precepts?
Womanizing (itthidhutta) is advised against in the Parābhavasutta on the grounds of its conducing to a man's worldly downfall, meaning loss of his wealth.

  • "The man who is addicted to women (given to a life of debauchery), is a drunkard, a gambler, and a squanderer of his earnings — this is the cause of his downfall."

However, not all instances of womanizing would break the third precept.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

Shaswata_Panja
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by Shaswata_Panja » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:37 pm

what if a man can womanize without spending money on women (Game)?

SarathW
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by SarathW » Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:12 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
identification wrote:Did the buddha ever discuss this? Is it breaking any of the precepts?
Womanizing (itthidhutta) is advised against in the Parābhavasutta on the grounds of its conducing to a man's worldly downfall, meaning loss of his wealth.

  • "The man who is addicted to women (given to a life of debauchery), is a drunkard, a gambler, and a squanderer of his earnings — this is the cause of his downfall."

However, not all instances of womanizing would break the third precept.
Bhante,
When is womanizing would not break the third precept?

:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Dhammanando
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:05 am

SarathW wrote:When is womanizing would not break the third precept?
For example, a budding Casanova goes to a singles bar every Friday or Saturday night in quest of a woman for a one-night-stand, but takes care not to go home with anyone who's married or engaged or still living in dependence on her parents or brothers, etc. etc. By confining his amatory attentions to women who are not in any of the prohibited classes, the Buddhist philanderer's observance of the third precept remains intact.

Edit: If you are living in Sri Lanka or some other Theravada country, it's possible that my answer will differ from what you are used to being told about the third precept. I am aware of the widespread popular view in Buddhist Asia which, as in the Abrahamic religions, holds all acts of "fornication" (sex between unmarried persons) to be breaches of the third precept. This opinion is not, however, supported in the texts, which allow that lawful sexual acts may be between married persons, engaged persons, "or even a temporary arrangement" (khaṇikāyapi).
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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Dhammanando
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:13 am

Shaswata_Panja wrote:what if a man can womanize without spending money on women (Game)?
In the absence of any financial constraints upon his appetite, I expect he’ll end up making rather a swine of himself.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

SarathW
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by SarathW » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:37 am

Dhammanando wrote:
SarathW wrote:When is womanizing would not break the third precept?
For example, a budding Casanova goes to a singles bar every Friday or Saturday night in quest of a woman for a one-night-stand, but takes care not to go home with anyone who's married or engaged or still living in dependence on her parents or brothers, etc. etc. By confining his amatory attentions to women who are not in any of the prohibited classes, the Buddhist philanderer's observance of the third precept remains intact.
I have to disagree with you Bhante.
If you look at Parabhawa Sutta , it disapproves men who involve with casual affairs.
Even if you look at the spirit of the five precepts, your statement does not compatable with it.
Please note that I was brought up by old Sri Lankan tradition.
It is a taboo to have a sexual relationship before marriage.
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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tiltbillings
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:43 am

SarathW wrote: It is a taboo to have a sexual relationship before marriage.
And who actually pays attention to such a taboo?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Dhammanando
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:53 am

SarathW wrote:I have to disagree with you Bhante.
I expected you would. :)
If you look at Parabhawa Sutta , it disapproves men who involve with casual affairs.
Yes, but not on the grounds that it violates the third precept, which is what you were asking about.
SarathW wrote:Please note that I was brought up by old Sri Lankan tradition.
It is a taboo to have a sexual relationship before marriage.
Sorry, but you don't know your own history. The contemporary Sri Lankans' anti-fornication belief, like their anti-homosexuality belief, is not "old Sri Lankan tradition" at all. It's a modern development arising from Buddhist revivialists like Anagarika Dharmapala trying to outdo the missionaries by being more Christian than the Christians.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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tiltbillings
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:10 am

Dhammanando wrote:. The contemporary Sri Lankans' anti-fornication belief, like their anti-homosexuality belief, is not "old Sri Lankan tradition" at all. It's a modern development arising from Buddhist revivialists like Anagarika Dharmapala trying to outdo the missionaries by being more Christian than the Christians.
That is not a surprise.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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cooran
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by cooran » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:18 am

Hello Sarath,

This article may be of interest:

Buddhism and Sex by M. O'C. Walshe
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el225.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

SarathW
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by SarathW » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:23 am

Thank you Bhante.
I wish I knew this thirty years ago. :)
By the way I like to read a bit about it.
I am sure uncontrolled sex is a hindrance to a meditator.
Meanwhile I am reading the article in the link below.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el225.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Dhammanando
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:59 am

SarathW wrote:I wish I knew this thirty years ago. :)
By the way I like to read a bit about it.
Well, there is plenty of informative material online. When you’ve finished with the Walshe booklet, if you want to learn how matters stood in Sri Lanka before sexual morals got reinvented by Dharmapala and company, just try googling ‘Ceylon’ in combination with words like ‘polygyny’, ‘polyandry’, ‘cicisbeism’, ‘polykoity’, etc.

Polyandry, it seems, was especially common in pre-modern Ceylon, most often in the form of one woman sharing two brothers.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

SarathW
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Re: Womanizing?

Post by SarathW » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:41 am

I am well aware of Polyandry. However this practice is now not accepted socially.
British introduced the registering marriages to Sri Lanka. (one woman and a one man)
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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