watching porn can be adultery?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Dhammanando
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by Dhammanando »

Shaswata_Panja wrote:In Indian spiritual systems which emphasize on self-effort, the single greatest barometer of progress is sexual continence..Male ejaculation is verily like the male equivalent of the female period/bleeding.
It seems to me that your conception of the the brahmacariyā is informed primarily (and almost wholly) by Hindu notions, and only secondarily (and almost incidentally) by the Buddha’s teaching. In the latter the mind is what it's all about and the yogic preoccupation with physiological matters is almost wholly absent.

Take menstruation, for example. In contrast with Hindu Yoga texts (and even more so with Jewish and Islamic ones) where there are reams and reams of prescriptions and discussions about purity taboos, the appropriate sequestering of a menstruating female, and the ritual ablutions and suchlike that she has to perform to regain her purity, in the Vinaya Piṭaka the Buddha takes no more than two paragraphs to deal with the matter. The first is an allowance for menstruating bhikkhunis to make use of a sanitary cloth; the second is a specification as to the cloth's size. That’s all he found it necessary to say on the subject.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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Dhammanando
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by Dhammanando »

SarathW wrote: Please accept my apologies Bhante.
I did not mean that you are discriminative.
I just point out the general discriminative behaviour of people.
Apology accepted, and thanks for clarifying your intention.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

SarathW
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by SarathW »

Dhammanando wrote:
SarathW wrote: Please accept my apologies Bhante.
I did not mean that you are discriminative.
I just point out the general discriminative behaviour of people.
Apology accepted, and thanks for clarifying your intention.
:bow:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Shaswata_Panja
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by Shaswata_Panja »

Dhammanando wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote:In Indian spiritual systems which emphasize on self-effort, the single greatest barometer of progress is sexual continence..Male ejaculation is verily like the male equivalent of the female period/bleeding.
It seems to me that your conception of the the brahmacariyā is informed primarily (and almost wholly) by Hindu notions, and only secondarily (and almost incidentally) by the Buddha’s teaching. In the latter the mind is what it's all about and the yogic preoccupation with physiological matters is almost wholly absent.

Take menstruation, for example. In contrast with Hindu Yoga texts (and even more so with Jewish and Islamic ones) where there are reams and reams of prescriptions and discussions about purity taboos, the appropriate sequestering of a menstruating female, and the ritual ablutions and suchlike that she has to perform to regain her purity, in the Vinaya Piṭaka the Buddha takes no more than two paragraphs to deal with the matter. The first is an allowance for menstruating bhikkhunis to make use of a sanitary cloth; the second is a specification as to the cloth's size. That’s all he found it necessary to say on the subject.
I am talking more about the psychological and physical weakness a woman suffers during her bleeding..The last two years I have spoken to a variety of men and they have also reported ejaculation weakens them (more so during self-abuse/masturbation than in coital act) and makes them depressed, demotivated. The effect is severely pronounced if the man had been restraining himself for more than a week. All the zest for life, career, studies, social contact is lost.


I feel frequent ejaculation is universally bad for males (no more than once a month for lay marrieds) . Be they spiritual or not. Of course the monastic Sangha has tremendous knowledge regarding celibacy, but I have a feeling they are loathe to share the value of celibacy with the outside world , lest they might be ridiculed by modern sex/porn/consumption-addicted culture

mario92
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by mario92 »

Azramin wrote:With anything of this nature, what you make of it with your mind within the environment you're in determines the perceived nature of any given thing.

EG: My wife is Muslim and therefore doesn't eat pork. It's a cultural religious taboo. I have no belief that what you eat can defile your body. Psychologically if you do believe defilement can occur and you participate, then within your own mind you're pursuing something you believe to be damaging. Therefore your state of mind is negatively impacted. IE: You are knowingly creating bad karma for yourself.
That is to say you're knowingly committing a non-virtuous act.

To a certain degree this is the principal behind the Christian text. It is your intent versus actual deed that defines your nature. Action is merely a result of intent. At some point given strong enough intent it will lead to action. IE: Given the opportunity to actually commit adultery, somebody predisposed to doing so via intent would cease that opportunity with little thought or mindfulness. They've primed themselves to it with thought and intent.

Spiral illustrates another example of what I've outlined. Within her marriage her former husband was participating in something he understood to cause suffering to another. Spiral herself. Thus he created bad karma for himself.

I'm using the term karma based on my understanding that karma is cause and effect. Virtuous behaviour or non-virtuous.

Based on the comments posted by others condoning or condemning pornography I would say this.

When basic human nature is suppressed in some manner, it will find a way to express itself in an insidious manner.
When you first attempt to meditate your mind is like a wild elephant. With time and gentleness you tame the wild mind. You don't stop it thinking things when trying to meditate. You gently guide it back to the focus of meditation until it is calm and trained.

Within modern society via the efforts of many religions our basic human nature has been suppressed. It is therefore like a wild elephant out of control.
On the whole we suppress our sexual nature and indeed disconnect from our physical being by concealing our form in clothing and regarding certain parts of it with disdain.

Were this not the situation, pornography would have a difficult time arising. Young men would have little to no curiosity about the female form if nakedness were not forbidden in the majority of normal contexts.
People probably wouldn't have unhealthy sexual appetites if sex itself wasn't such a taboo subject and regarded in such an unbalanced way.

It's that this situation has arisen that pornography thrives. It's cause and effect. To express a Taoist concept it is the pendulum swinging from one extreme to another.

As such pornography is like pus in a fetid wound. We deny and suppress our basic carnal knowledge and this is the outcome. Sex is neither good nor bad. Like all things in ultimate reality it just is. What makes it one thing or another are the attributes, good or otherwise, that we assign it.

:goodpost: Thank you Azramin, i was looking for a thread like this, i dont used to take care of my clothing, and i think im suppressing to much my sexuality, as i was acting in an unbalanced way. The post you made is a great truth, i think this can balance unskillfull sexual behaviour. Most of my time i see dangers in relationships with women, i had been a broken heart all my life hehe, i prefer to be alone with little interaction with some women i might like.

mario92
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by mario92 »

Modus.Ponens wrote:
lotus flower wrote:Some persons says porn is not adultery, some says it can be adultery. What if the porn star has a boyfriend/girlfriend while someone watch the porn star's porn video and masturbate? Adultery?
I think the bigger question is that the pornstar is having sex with another person. Not that someone is watching her.

Watching porn has the same contribution to prostitution, as eating meat has to the killing of animals. It's praise worthy that people abstain from watching porn for ethical reasons. But I have the same position here as I have with vegetarianism: it's not a serious ethical violation. Others will probably strongly disagree, and maybe rightly so.

As for adultery it doesn't even make sense. People think of other people all the time, even if involuntary. It's not immoral to think of other people _ or, at least, it's not anything serious. In fact I would propose that watching porn reduces (physical) adultery. On the other hand, the partner might feel they can't compete with the women/men in the videos. But being in a relationship doesn't mean you relinquish all your sexuality to one person. It means you don't mess around with other people you also like, out of respect and love for your partner. But a person in a relationship is an individual, not half of an indifferentiated whole.
yay! thank you Modus. Ponens, I think it can be unwholesome to think in women regarding the 10 unwholesome actions, in the mental action of being covetous of desiring other woman , it is as you done this action like seeing pornography but it is not as bad as breaking the 5 precepts, but i had experiencing some bad karma, as i see it comes from unskillful sexual behaviour, bad karma as enmity, being hated, or being of despised nature, i feel glad i dont have to break the precepts at least. Some of the last semesters i had been in trouble with enmity, as i only knew was due to watching porn, the more i was aware of the precepts the more happy i became, for example, when the fumigator came i try to dont get involved in even open him the door of my house, i lock the door of my room and dont answer hehe, because i had experiencing bad karma of letting him killing insects, i got sick of flu, and is a very detrimental expierence. Well i have some similar bad experiences with other precepts.

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Zom
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by Zom »

i had been in trouble with enmity, as i only knew was due to watching porn
This is not a knowledge, but a pure speculation, sorry -)

mario92
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by mario92 »

Zom wrote:
i had been in trouble with enmity, as i only knew was due to watching porn
This is not a knowledge, but a pure speculation, sorry -)
In some quotings some bhikkhus say that karma has its effects in consideration with certain kind of actions, i have read it from bhikkhu samahita, ajahn martin piyadhammo taught that if you lie the result is to have bad mouth smelling, and others quotations, by the buddha himself, say if you kill, the result is to get sick or have a short life, or even being reborn in a lower realm.

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Zom
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by Zom »

by the buddha himself, say if you kill, the result is to get sick or have a short life, or even being reborn in a lower realm.
Okay, but what does he say about watching porn? -) Again, you can never be sure that this or that happening is the result of your kamma. You can only speculate - not more than that.

Disciple
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by Disciple »

lotus flower wrote:Hello all, :buddha1:

if someone watching porn then can it be adultery? ...
If that's the case then I'm committing adultery almost everyday!

:twisted:

spacenick
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by spacenick »

6000 views on that topic :jumping:

We would all want others to tell us that it's fine to do so, isn't it?

I don't think that it violates any precepts, however if you're serious with your practice you'll come to realize this is the kind of sensory excitement (porn is probably one of the most intensely exciting thing for your senses) that will make settling down into jhanas very very difficult. If you want to go to the Olympics, you're not gonna be able to eat at McDonald's everyday.

If you're going to watch porn anyway, instead of developing an unhealthy denial, self-blame or guilt (that will make your lust even more potent), use wisdom power: make the determination to be very attentive and mindful as you do your business. Then it will become very apparent that this endeavor is in itself unpleasant (the mind gets into the "skipping mode", just like the mind gets into the "next mouthful mode" when we eat mindlessly). Be also very present during the aftermath, especially when it fades.

As you make more conscious the fact that the act is unpleasant, and the release very short-lived (anicca), you'll develop dispassion for it and you'll naturally stop (that applies to everything, by the way).

I see it as climbing up a mountain trail with a huuuge boulder attached to yourself. You're shooting yourself in the foot in terms of progress.

On the same note, I believe that there is a Patimokkha rule that forbids the bhikkhus to tell lay people that sexual activity is *not* a hindrance to jhanas (I'll research that, but if someone has that off the top of their head.. It would be neat!)

Edit: found it, pācittiya 68

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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by TRobinson465 »

Well I guess it "can" if you have a partner who openly does not want you to and you do anyways? (i think that would count). But if you are on 5 precepts and that isnt the case I dont see how it would be. Talking strictly on whether it violates the precepts that is.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

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robertk
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by robertk »

On the same note, I believe that there is a Patimokkha rule that forbids the bhikkhus to tell lay people that sexual activity is *not* a hindrance to jhanas (I'll research that, but if someone has that off the top of their head.. It would be neat!)
The rule is about a bhikkhu expressing a wrong view, and attributing the wrong view as being Dhamma. Nothing about telling laypeople this or that other than one of the ways he might express the wrong view is to laypeople or monks or nuns.

spacenick
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by spacenick »

robertk wrote:
On the same note, I believe that there is a Patimokkha rule that forbids the bhikkhus to tell lay people that sexual activity is *not* a hindrance to jhanas (I'll research that, but if someone has that off the top of their head.. It would be neat!)
The rule is about a bhikkhu expressing a wrong view, and attributing the wrong view as being Dhamma. Nothing about telling laypeople this or that other than one of the ways he might express the wrong view is to laypeople or monks or nuns.
Yeah, I looked at ATI and you're right; so all the things (the examples of wrong views, I guess) exposed in the link I shared are additions, right?

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robertk
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Re: watching porn can be adultery?

Post by robertk »

Could you quote what you are referring to by 'additions'.
Thanks

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