Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by lyndon taylor »

wolf1 wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:My guess is this problem is bigger and harder than I can help you with!!!! Good luck.......
Why do you say it? every problems has solutions. and i am not a man. the truth i am female. but since i am bisexual i watched lesbian porn. please, if you have an idea then tell me.
Sorry I was trying to be funny on the mistaken assumption you were a man!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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happylotus1
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by happylotus1 »

Asuva is an excellent practice referred by the Buddha to pacify our lustful mind so as to create a suitable condition for a higher meditation practice. Escape in my previous posting did not refer to asuva bhavana but to the "attitude" of running away. Self hate, grudge towards our habit does not reduce our negativity rather they help to pile up more defilement. Accepting or facing reality and working in a balanced way would help to reduce our defilement. The purpose of mindfulness meditation like vipassana is to let us develop awareness based on our feelings so that our mind knows very well the aftereffects of any harmful activity such as watching porn and associated self blame and regret. I think you are on a right track as your mind is aware of this aftereffects and you want to come out of the negativity. In my view, three steps are crucial to fight with any of the addictions or defilement in general:
1. Sense restraint: Be determined and make effort as much as possible not to watch porn. If you have watched , be aware and move out of it and watch feelings/sensations of that particular situation
2. Develop concentration: Increase one pointedness on subject of meditation(of course it is a gradual process) Watching asuva will be helpful for developing concentration as per the original pali text.
3. Develop equanimity: Observe body sensations with equanimity to develop balanced mind. and more importantly our attitude should be like this
"And how does a monk remain focused on the mind in & of itself? There is the case where a monk, when the mind has passion, discerns that the mind has passion. When the mind is without passion, he discerns that the mind is without passion. When the mind has aversion, he discerns that the mind has aversion. When the mind is without aversion, he discerns that the mind is without aversion. When the mind has delusion, he discerns that the mind has delusion. When the mind is without delusion, he discerns that the mind is without delusion.
Last edited by happylotus1 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A householder or householder's son, hearing the Dhamma, gains conviction in the Tathāgata and reflects: 'Household life is confining, a dusty path. The life gone forth is like the open air. It is not easy living at home to practice the holy life totally perfect, totally pure, like a polished shell. What if I were to shave off my hair & beard, put on the ochre robes, and go forth from the household life into homelessness?

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

lyndon taylor wrote:
wolf1 wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:My guess is this problem is bigger and harder than I can help you with!!!! Good luck.......
Why do you say it? every problems has solutions. and i am not a man. the truth i am female. but since i am bisexual i watched lesbian porn. please, if you have an idea then tell me.
Sorry I was trying to be funny on the mistaken assumption you were a man!
You know what they say ....when we assume.... :tongue:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by lyndon taylor »

Well the OP DID mention how hard the problem was!!! And you were the one asking for more humour on the forum, NoBS.....
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

wolf1
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by wolf1 »

Zom wrote:You are on the right track. You have correct understanding that sexual craving is unwholesome thing (right views factor) and correct desire to remove this unwholesome thing (right aspiration factor). These two will nurture other path factors and in time you will succeed in overcoming sensual desire. Just keep going, and remember, it won't happen quickly. Propably some years of constant practice needed. But then you will see results for yourself.

I'll also give you one tip. Every time when this craving obsess your mind, keep watching the mental pain it creates - as long as you can. This contemplation is very important, because when your mind sees this pain, it will come to deeper understanding that strong craving it a nasty and painful thing. You just need to watch it, this pain, directly, every time craving arises. When your mind comes to this understanding, it won't produce such strong craving anymore.
happylotus1 wrote:Asuva is an excellent practice referred by the Buddha to pacify our lustful mind so as to create a suitable condition for a higher meditation practice. Escape in my previous posting did not refer to asuva bhavana but to the "attitude" of running away. Self hate, grudge towards our habit does not reduce our negativity rather they help to pile up more defilement. Accepting or facing reality and working in a balanced way would help to reduce our defilement. The purpose of mindfulness meditation like vipassana is to let us develop awareness based on our feelings so that our mind knows very well the aftereffects of any harmful activity such as watching porn and associated self blame and regret. I think you are on a right track as your mind is aware of this aftereffects and you want to come out of the negativity. In my view, three steps are crucial to fight with any of the addictions or defilement in general:
1. Sense restraint: Be determined and make effort as much as possible not to watch porn. If you have watched , be aware and move out of it and watch feelings/sensations of that particular situation
2. Develop concentration: Increase one pointedness on subject of meditation(of course it is a gradual process) Watching asuva will be helpful for developing concentration as per the original pali text.
3. Develop equanimity: Observe body sensations with equanimity to develop balanced mind. and more importantly our attitude should be like this
"And how does a monk remain focused on the mind in & of itself? There is the case where a monk, when the mind has passion, discerns that the mind has passion. When the mind is without passion, he discerns that the mind is without passion. When the mind has aversion, he discerns that the mind has aversion. When the mind is without aversion, he discerns that the mind is without aversion. When the mind has delusion, he discerns that the mind has delusion. When the mind is without delusion, he discerns that the mind is without delusion.
these are good thank you :)
TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
wolf1 wrote:My strategy is: i think it: full of desires and full of delusions thoughts appears ---> these thoughts are dirty, and full of greed, it would makes suffering --->
And there's your problem, right there.
Unskillful labelling.

You hang your issue on condemnation, and demonise what you do.

Take away those labels, you're almost emotionally criminalising your actions.

Stop with the ''dirty' and 'greedy'.

What you do - is what you do.
You may want to stop doing what you're doing, so frequently, or altogether - but condemning yourself by using such strong terminology is not conducive to your task, and has not worked, has it?

You need to alter your perception, and look at matters from a new perspective.
You may believe your actions are unwholesome, and not conducive to one who wishes to follow a Buddhist calling.
Fine.
But stop piling so much guilt and self-loathing onto your shoulders.

Change what you're doing, because what you're doing isn't helping - it's just making things worse.
it is not about hate myself or a similar thing. u read this: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Vitakkasanthana Sutta: The Relaxation of Thoughts

"if evil, unskillful thoughts — imbued with desire, aversion, or delusion — still arise in the monk while he is attending to this other theme, connected with what is skillful, he should scrutinize the drawbacks of those thoughts: 'Truly, these thoughts of mine are unskillful, these thoughts of mine are blameworthy, these thoughts of mine result in stress.' As he is scrutinizing the drawbacks of those thoughts, those evil, unskillful thoughts — imbued with desire, aversion, or delusion — are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it. Just as a young woman — or man — fond of adornment, would be horrified, humiliated, and disgusted if the carcass of a snake or a dog or a human being were hung from her neck; in the same way, if evil, unskillful thoughts — imbued with desire, aversion, or delusion — still arise in the monk while he is attending to this other theme, connected with what is skillful, he should scrutinize the drawbacks of those thoughts: 'Truly, these thoughts of mine are unskillful, these thoughts of mine are blameworthy, these thoughts of mine result in stress.' As he is scrutinizing the drawbacks of those thoughts, those evil, unskillful thoughts — imbued with desire, aversion, or delusion — are abandoned and subside. With their abandoning, he steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it, and concentrates it."

manas
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by manas »

wolf1 wrote:My strategy is: i think it: full of desires and full of delusions thoughts appears ---> these thoughts are dirty, and full of greed, it would makes suffering ---> asubha nimitta ---> i thinking about Buddha ---> i thik it: full of desires and full of delusions thoughts are not.
Sorry for my english....
Sexual thoughts - if about an appropriate object of attraction - are not 'dirty', wolf. Who put that idea into your mind?

It is possible to be someone who accepts their sexuality, and even rejoices in it, AND is a follower of the Buddha AND is following the five precepts AND has a steady meditation practice.

with metta,
manas.
“It would be better for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person to hold to the body composed of the four great elements, rather than the mind, as the self. Why is that? Because this body composed of the four great elements is seen standing for a year, two years, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred years or more. But what’s called ‘mind,’ ‘intellect,’ or ‘consciousness’ by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another." - SN 12:61 (excerpt)

wolf1
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by wolf1 »

manas wrote:
wolf1 wrote:My strategy is: i think it: full of desires and full of delusions thoughts appears ---> these thoughts are dirty, and full of greed, it would makes suffering ---> asubha nimitta ---> i thinking about Buddha ---> i thik it: full of desires and full of delusions thoughts are not.
Sorry for my english....
Sexual thoughts - if about an appropriate object of attraction - are not 'dirty', wolf. Who put that idea into your mind?

It is possible to be someone who accepts their sexuality, and even rejoices in it, AND is a follower of the Buddha AND is following the five precepts AND has a steady meditation practice.

with metta,

manas.
simple sexual thoughts are not dirty yes. but porn is dirty. it's so primitive and bad that a people see how other peoples do sex. and there are a many writing and articles on the internet about porn makes strong addiction. it's just like a drug. easy and quickly to use and it's not natural.

Coyote
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by Coyote »

Wolf1, did you take a look at the website I posted earlier in the thread? Although I think it is mainly aimed at males, it has some really good articles and tips for helping you break the cycle of porn addiction. Not sure I want to go into detail, but even light porn addiction changes your brain and body in some not-so-good ways. After abstaining for about a month, your brain reverts back to normal, and there is not so much of a compulsion.
Unless you have pretty strong practice, I don't think meditation techniques in themselves are going to help much.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

wolf1 wrote:simple sexual thoughts are not dirty yes. but porn is dirty. it's so primitive and bad that a people see how other peoples do sex. and there are a many writing and articles on the internet about porn makes strong addiction. it's just like a drug. easy and quickly to use and it's not natural.
No, porn is not dirty. Yet again, you are clouding your practice with perceptions that in the end, condemn you for your tastes.

You cannot indicate that you believe your thoughts are clean, but porn is dirty.

And by watching reading porn, your thoughts are sullied....
By that process, anything widely used and enjoyed by multitudes, could be described in the same way.

Simply because something becomes an addiction, it does not make that substance, or object, bad, dirty, evil, wrong or damaging.

You attitude to it, your addiction, is your responsibility.
Porn i s not dirty.
but you must address your focus, because by thinking you are guilty of watching/using something 'dirty', then you are tainted, by association.

This is not so.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

wolf1
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by wolf1 »

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
wolf1 wrote:simple sexual thoughts are not dirty yes. but porn is dirty. it's so primitive and bad that a people see how other peoples do sex. and there are a many writing and articles on the internet about porn makes strong addiction. it's just like a drug. easy and quickly to use and it's not natural.
No, porn is not dirty. Yet again, you are clouding your practice with perceptions that in the end, condemn you for your tastes.

You cannot indicate that you believe your thoughts are clean, but porn is dirty.

And by watching reading porn, your thoughts are sullied....
By that process, anything widely used and enjoyed by multitudes, could be described in the same way.

Simply because something becomes an addiction, it does not make that substance, or object, bad, dirty, evil, wrong or damaging.

You attitude to it, your addiction, is your responsibility.
Porn i s not dirty.
but you must address your focus, because by thinking you are guilty of watching/using something 'dirty', then you are tainted, by association.

This is not so.
u say porn is not dirty.... it is just artificial. and u see how other peoples do sex it is not a right thing. so artificial.
Coyote wrote:Wolf1, did you take a look at the website I posted earlier in the thread? Although I think it is mainly aimed at males, it has some really good articles and tips for helping you break the cycle of porn addiction. Not sure I want to go into detail, but even light porn addiction changes your brain and body in some not-so-good ways. After abstaining for about a month, your brain reverts back to normal, and there is not so much of a compulsion.
Unless you have pretty strong practice, I don't think meditation techniques in themselves are going to help much.
yes, i started today. Thank you.

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

wolf1 wrote: u say porn is not dirty.... it is just artificial. and u see how other peoples do sex it is not a right thing. so artificial.
You command of English is commendable, truly. I would that I could speak your tongue as lucidly as you do, English.
But here, I confess. I'm not entirely sure I have grasped what you mean....?

Could you elaborate?

Many thanks.

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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waterchan
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by waterchan »

Not to be insensitive, I think a lot of men can relate to porn addiction, but...

Am I the only person who laughed out loud upon seeing the title of this thread? :tongue:
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

waterchan wrote:Not to be insensitive, I think a lot of men can relate to porn addiction, but...

Am I the only person who laughed out loud upon seeing the title of this thread? :tongue:
Possibly.
Probably.

That is to say, for my part, I did not laugh.

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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mirco
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by mirco »

There is porn. There is addiction. I don't know how many of you actually know what it means to be addicted / to 'be' an addict. When people hear "porn addict", they tend to laugh, because it has got "porn" in it. When the same people her "drug addict" no one laughes. But basically it is the same. The same mental insanity, the same despair, the same road to death. If you don't understand what this means, then you are probably not an addict.

I don't want to take things too seriously, because that does not help. Condemning ones relapses does not help. Things happen. And things happen again. Just get back on the track and give it a fresh start. Remember, it is a stepwise training, like in any other aspect of the Buddhist training. One time will be the last time one did it.

P.S.: Same for ego-identification, which is an addiction, too. Actually all non-Arahants are addicts.
Last edited by mirco on Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." - Bhikkhu Anālayo

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Porn addict and painful and hard cleaning

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

mirco wrote:There is porn. There is addiction. I don't know how many of you know actually know what it means to be addicted / to 'be' an addict. When people hear "porn addict", they tend to laugh, because it has got "porn" in it. When the same people her "drug addict" no one laughes. But basically it is the same. The same mental insanity, the same despair, the same road to death. If you don't understand what this means, then you are probably not an addict.

I don't want to take things too seriously, because that does not help. Condemning ones relapses does not help. Things happen. And things happen again. Just get back on the track and give it a fresh start. Remember, it is a stepwise training, like in any other aspect of the Buddhist training. One time will be the last time one did it.

P.S.: Same for ego-identification, which is an addiction, too. Actually all non-Arahants are addicts.
Quite:
Without appearing conscious of it, most of us are addicted to one thing or another.... it could be a routine we have become accustomed to, and feel that if we break it, there is an offence to our sensibilities... like the gentleman who would take his dog for a walk to the park, every morning, at 06.30 on the dot, and on the return journey, would stop to buy a newspaper.
His distress was palpable when the newsagents closed.... and when his dog died, he actually asked, "What on earth am I going to do every morning, now?"

The 'withdrawal symptoms' were almost too painful to witness.

My point to the OP is that to demonise herself, her views and what she does, is counter-productive, and actually makes the situation worse.
Her addiction is not so much the problem; her attitude to the result of her addiction, and her opinion of her worth, in her own eyes - are almost too painful to witness.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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