Abortion

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
chownah
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Re: Abortion and the first precept

Post by chownah » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:30 am

dylanj wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:24 am
save the babies
It seems that before descent into the womb there are no babies according to the pali canon.
chownah

chownah
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Re: Abortion and the first precept

Post by chownah » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:35 am

Here is the thread I mentioned:
Female Buddhists, rape, and the 1st precept
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29714&p=429258&hilit=thumb#p429258
chownah

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dylanj
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Re: Abortion and the first precept

Post by dylanj » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:04 am

chownah wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:30 am
dylanj wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:24 am
save the babies
It seems that before descent into the womb there are no babies according to the pali canon.
chownah
yes. & descent into the womb occurs at conception
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

TRobinson465
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Re: Abortion and the first precept

Post by TRobinson465 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:38 am

salayatananirodha wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:21 am
There is this; it's not a sutta, but it's an āgama. https://suttacentral.net/ea21.3/en/huye ... b-pasadika
I don't think abortion is ever referred to in the suttas.
It is in the vinaya. (if you count that as a sutta)
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

chownah
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Re: Abortion and the first precept

Post by chownah » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:43 am

dylanj wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:04 am
chownah wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:30 am
dylanj wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:24 am
save the babies
It seems that before descent into the womb there are no babies according to the pali canon.
chownah
yes. & descent into the womb occurs at conception
The usual definition for conception is the uniting of the egg and sperm which happens before the descent into the womb.
chownah

TRobinson465
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Re: Abortion and the first precept

Post by TRobinson465 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:43 am

I believe there are several jataka tales which describe a descent into the womb fairly early in pregnancy (before the woman shows any noticeable signs of pregnancy). And the Story of the Buddhas final rebirth of course describes his descent from Tusita into the womb of Queen Mahamaya fairly early in pregnancy as well. its safe to say abortion clearly breaks the first precept. something like morning-after is slightly debatable. But based on the ekottarikāgama 21.3 linked to above its most likely at or shortly after conception.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

James Tan
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Re: Abortion and the first precept

Post by James Tan » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:53 am

chownah wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:30 am
dylanj wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:24 am
save the babies
It seems that before descent into the womb there are no babies according to the pali canon.
chownah
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29714&p=429258&hilit=thumb#p429258


<
The buddha talks about "conception in a womb ". I want to clearly point out that the zygote is formed by the fusion of an egg and a sperm IN THE OVIDUCT (ALSO KNOWN AS FALLOPIAN TUBE) and NOT IN THE UTERUS (ALSO KNOWN AS THE WOMB). The buddha is talking about "conception in a womb". If someone wants to take that pali texts as being their guide then it seems that the zygote stage comes BEFORE there is "conception in a womb".
chownah
>

{ zygote stage comes BEFORE
there is "conception in a womb }

So, let's say that the Buddha was inaccurate in term of describing the process of conception .
However , in this era the abortion is not about
" aborting the zygote " does it ?

The question is , does aborting a fetus / a baby is violating the first precept which is unwholesome kamma ?!
If a person wants to abort a fetus or a baby or make a choice to do so or insisting that abortion is Not Killing is by definition incorrect .

If anyone decided to do so , then they have to understand the whole thing and prepare to accept the consequences .
:reading:

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Abortion and the first precept

Post by JamesTheGiant » Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:19 am

Now that's settled, can this thread or topic please be merged with the other horrible abortion thread, and we can all move on?

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