Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Aloka
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by Aloka » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:09 am

manas wrote: One thing in it's favour is that, even when misused, it kills a negligible amount of people as compared with many other drugs. (Last I heard, there were actually zero recorded cases of natural marijuana causing death, as compared with alcohol's millions of deaths per year, for example). And in case anyone thinks I am an apologist for weed, I'm not; because while it doesn't actually kill anyone directly, it does, over the long-term, reduce a person's intelligence, motivation and mindfulness, and is best avoided if possible. So of course I would never advocate marijuana being used for recreational purposes...only medical.

It may not kill people but its been linked to schizophrenia and psychosis.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 112748.htm

http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention ... drugs.html

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amtross
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by amtross » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:58 pm

I had a friend with Rheumatoid Arthritis that hated getting high but she ingested MJ (had a prescription) because it was the only effective relief she could find. RA is extremely painful. Providing someone in this kind of need with medicine that helps them is compassionate!

danieLion
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by danieLion » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:48 pm

Aloka wrote:
manas wrote: One thing in it's favour is that, even when misused, it kills a negligible amount of people as compared with many other drugs. (Last I heard, there were actually zero recorded cases of natural marijuana causing death, as compared with alcohol's millions of deaths per year, for example). And in case anyone thinks I am an apologist for weed, I'm not; because while it doesn't actually kill anyone directly, it does, over the long-term, reduce a person's intelligence, motivation and mindfulness, and is best avoided if possible. So of course I would never advocate marijuana being used for recreational purposes...only medical.
It may not kill people but its been linked to schizophrenia and psychosis.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 112748.htm

http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention ... drugs.html
Hi Aloka,

Did you actually look at those REEFER MADNESS studies? Pot use is no more "linked" to schizophrenia and psychosis than tap water.

Harry J. Anslinger would be proud:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marihuana_Tax_Act_of_1937" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Anslinger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Furthermore, schizophrenia (and psychosis for that matter) is still very little understood.
Best,
Daniel

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Aloka
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by Aloka » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:53 am

danieLion wrote: Hi Aloka,

Did you actually look at those REEFER MADNESS studies? Pot use is no more "linked" to schizophrenia and psychosis than tap water.
My links weren't from "Reefer Madness" studies. Furthermore I used to smoke some cannabis myself as a student and saw first hand some of my fellow students develop mental health problems as a result of heavy cannabis smoking. I also saw the same thing happen to a couple of musicians I knew.

Additionally the 'skunk' available to kids on the streets today is incredibly powerful stuff .

I'm speaking now from my personal experience and observation, not from statistics and the media.


.

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mikenz66
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:36 am

Hi Daniel,
danieLion wrote: Pot use is no more "linked" to schizophrenia and psychosis than tap water.
In the personal experience of people I know well, you are misinformed.

:anjali:
Mike

danieLion
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by danieLion » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:42 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Daniel,
danieLion wrote: Pot use is no more "linked" to schizophrenia and psychosis than tap water.
In the personal experience of people I know well, you are misinformed.

:anjali:
Mike
Hi Mike,
How did they rule out confounding variables (e.g., tap water)?
Best,
Daniel

danieLion
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by danieLion » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:52 am

danieLion wrote: Hi Aloka,

Did you actually look at those REEFER MADNESS studies? Pot use is no more "linked" to schizophrenia and psychosis than tap water.


Aloka wrote:Additionally the 'skunk' available to kids on the streets today is incredibly powerful stuff .
Hi Aloka,
That's what people who use it medicinally call progress.

And: what "streets"? Which "kids"?
Best,
Daniel

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mikenz66
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:15 am

Hi Daniel,
Clearly you're not willing to take seriously the experiences that Aloka and I have of seriously disturbed people whose problems were clearly triggered by marijuana use. For obvious reasons I'm not going to elaborate on the details, so I'll bow out at this point.

:anjali:
Mike

danieLion
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by danieLion » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:27 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Daniel,
Clearly you're not willing to take seriously the experiences that Aloka and I have of seriously disturbed people whose problems were clearly triggered by marijuana use. For obvious reasons I'm not going to elaborate on the details, so I'll bow out at this point.

:anjali:
Mike
Hi Mike,
That's disappointing.

The cause(s) of schizophrenia have been debated for years and the debate continues to grow.

The history of this debate It is CLEARLY incongruent with ANY ALLEGED CAUSE(S) of schizophrenia, cannabis included.

Best,
Daniel

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marc108
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by marc108 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:42 pm

lets also be clear here that the dose makes the medicine. most people who are using cannabis for legitimate medical reasons are not consuming at the same high amounts as recreational users. looking at your pothead friends and trying to make a judgement based on that, is akin to looking at a heroin abuser and trying to make a judgement on opiate based painkillers.


there are plenty of medicinal herbs that will cause issues in high doses. cannabis in small, controlled dosing is extremely unlikely to cause problems in the average person. cannabis can also be combined with other herbs to attenuate some of the 'dulling' effects it can have on the mind & memory with chronic use. it is, without a doubt, extremely safe if used properly.
mikenz66 wrote:problems were clearly triggered by marijuana use.
use? or abuse?
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

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Annapurna
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by Annapurna » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:19 pm

Economy/Germany: Volcano Medic launched as the first approved medical cannabinoid inhaler

The German company Vapormed launched the world’s first officially approved medical cannabinoid inhaler, the Volcano Medic Vaporizer. The Volcano Medic Vaporization System is intended to vaporize and facilitate the inhalation of dronabinol (THC) dissolved in alcohol or cannabinoids from cannabis flowers (cannabis flos). In their press release of 2 June the company notes that "the Volcano Medic Vaporization System resolves two medical-technical problems at the same time. On the one hand, for the first time the Volcano Medic Vaporization System allows for the medical inhalation therapy with liquid, in alcohol dissolved cannabinoids. On the other hand, it allows for the inhalation therapy with cannabinoids directly from dried hemp flowers. (…) In the Volcano Medic Vaporization System the cannabinoids are solved (vaporized) by heat impact only. A combustion as it takes place while smoking does not occur." This avoids the formation of noxious combustion products.

The main advantages of the inhalation of cannabinoids compared to oral administration would be the rapid onset of effects and cost reduction due to considerably higher efficiency of vaporized cannabinoids. "The systemic bioavailability of inhaled cannabinoids is approx. 29% - 40%. For comparison: The systemic bioavailability of cannabinoids administered orally is below 15%." The manufacturer of the Volcano Medic Vaporization System is the company Storz & Bickel. According to the press release the Volcano Medic will first be available in the Netherlands and in Germany. It is certified by TUEV SUED in Munich in compliance with the applicable directives and laws for medical devices. "The availability of the Volcano Medic in further countries depends on the availability of authorized and vaporizable cannabinoids or cannabis flowers in these countries," the company writes.

More information:
http://www.vapormed.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danieLion
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by danieLion » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:31 pm

marc108 wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:problems were clearly triggered by marijuana use.
use? or abuse?
Good question. The DSM has something to say about this distinction.
Best,
Daniel

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by LonesomeYogurt » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:50 pm

danieLion wrote:Good question. The DSM has something to say about this distinction.
Best,
Daniel
Using any mind-altering chemical without a legitimate reason is abuse. Marijuana, for most people, has the medical value of dish soap - asking if they "use or abuse" is like asking if I use or abuse pencil shavings.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

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Annapurna
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by Annapurna » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:26 am

Abuse of a mind altering substance means, that you do it for recreational purposes, to entertain yourself with the extra sensations it brings, the fake high.

Usage is, for instance, when you feel no craving for a high, but wish to get rid of the symptoms of an illness, like the compulsive movement disorders and curses of Tourette's.

danieLion
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by danieLion » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:03 am

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
danieLion wrote:Marijuana, for most people, has the medical value of dish soap....
Hi LY,
Who gets to decide medical value?
Best,
Daniel

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