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Re: Vegetable gardening and the 1st precept

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:52 pm
by daverupa
Hanzze wrote:If we start on such a point tho say "a unintended(*) death-of-insect a wholly minor affair", we might not reach or even strive to reach an proper livelihood.
This is a slippery slope fallacy. The ethic as set out rests on "sustained ahimsa", a component of right intention, therefore ultimately supporting right livelihood.

Re: Vegetable gardening and the 1st precept

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:22 pm
by Cittasanto
EM (Effective Micro-organism) is good for pest & disease control, added benefit is it also discourages rodents.
http://www.agritech.tnau.ac.in/org_farm ... anism.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
scroll down a little there is a recipe for the pest control. you can also get a drink called EMX which is good for health apparently, I have had this once, however I have heard good things about it regarding both uses.

There was a small scale production of it where I was, but I left before it was finished.

Re: Vegetable gardening and the 1st precept

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:50 am
by danieLion
I think passages about nutriment, like MN 9: 9-12, are relevant.

Re: Vegetable gardening and the 1st precept

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:51 am
by Hanzze
daverupa wrote:
Hanzze wrote:If we start on such a point tho say "a unintended(*) death-of-insect a wholly minor affair", we might not reach or even strive to reach an proper livelihood.
This is a slippery slope fallacy. The ethic as set out rests on "sustained ahimsa", a component of right intention, therefore ultimately supporting right livelihood.
If it is put also into action and is not just a thought construction which is based on a kind of discrimination (needed, must...). Training precepts are training precepts, and when we are able to rest on a livelihood which is not equal with that holly live, than we might have made our ways around the path. Of cause it could be that we have a lot of old merits, but they will not last.
"sustained ahimsa" with knife and axe in the hand is a nice idea, but I guess it will stay just an idea (or a non-dual illusion some sects have developed). We can easily dismantle our thoughts when we think on taken what is not given as this goes mostly hand in hand. I guess there the christian influence of "that is your earth, make something out of it" often interplays with thoughts.

Re: Vegetable gardening and the 1st precept

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:00 am
by danieLion
As the first of the Novice's Questions says: "What is one? All beings subsist on food." This is how the Buddha introduced the topic of causality to young people: The primary causal relationship isn't something gentle like light reflecting off mirrors, or jewels illuminating jewels. It's feeding. Our bodies need physical food for their well-being. Our minds need the food of pleasant sensory contacts, intentions, and consciousness itself in order to function. If you ever want proof that interconnectedness isn't always something to celebrate, just contemplate how the beings of the world feed on one another, physically and emotionally. Interbeing is inter-eating. As Ajaan Suwat, my second teacher once said, "If there were a god who could arrange that by my eating I could make everyone in the world full, I'd bow down to that god." But that's not how eating works.

Ordinarily, even well-intentioned people may not see eating as harmful. We're so compelled to eat that we blind ourselves to its larger impact. Our first pleasure, after the terror of being born, was getting to feed. We did it with our eyes closed, and most people keep their eyes closed to the impact of their feeding throughout life.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... heart.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yet, he's also written about how he thinks exterminating ants is unskillful? :shrug:
metta

Re: Vegetable gardening and the 1st precept

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:11 am
by SDC
Gardeners unite here.

Re: Vegetable gardening and the 1st precept

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:16 pm
by chownah
Vegetable gardening and strictly following the first precept (to not kill) seems to me to be a theoretic undertaking and has little bearing on following the first precept while maintaining one's life. Is there anyone out there who strictly follows the first precept in vegetable gardening and who provides their entire food intake?...I doubt it.....probably there is noone posting here who gardens that way and produces even 10 percent of their food intake.
I would add that strictly following the first precept would include not digging or tilling the soil in that one of the reasons this is done is to kill sentient beings which live in the soil and eat the roots of the plants which provide our food.
chownah

Re: Vegetable gardening and the 1st precept

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:35 pm
by Rui Sousa
marc108 wrote:Ive been giving vegetable gardening a serious crack this year and have realize just how difficult pest control is while adhering to the first precept. Large pests like slugs, snails and worms can easily be picked off but microscopic bugs & eggs that can easily decimate an entire garden seems to be impossible to control without killing? Id be interested to hear from any gardeners that maintain the 1st precept and how they have dealt with pests?
I fail as a gardener, because I prefer to maintain my precepts.

Still, I have nice lettuces and and cucumbers growing in my vegetable garden. A few years ago I was going to have a huge production of cantalupe melons, but a white fungus killed all the plants :( I decided not to use any chemicals, that could kill the fungus, but would also kill many other beings.

Re: Vegetable gardening and the 1st precept

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:39 pm
by Rui Sousa
chownah wrote:Vegetable gardening and strictly following the first precept (to not kill) seems to me to be a theoretic undertaking and has little bearing on following the first precept while maintaining one's life. Is there anyone out there who strictly follows the first precept in vegetable gardening and who provides their entire food intake?...I doubt it.....probably there is noone posting here who gardens that way and produces even 10 percent of their food intake.
I would add that strictly following the first precept would include not digging or tilling the soil in that one of the reasons this is done is to kill sentient beings which live in the soil and eat the roots of the plants which provide our food.
chownah
I produce vegetables for fun. If I had to live from it... It would be completely different, I doubt i could keep the 1st precept the same way.

Re: Vegetable gardening and the 1st precept

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:34 pm
by RMSmith
It depends on the pests you're dealing with. I find that a diluted mist of Murphys Oil Soap works well to deter pest. Cut worms can be negated by just placing tin can collars at the base of each plant. Sprinkling a bit of diatomaceous earth onto the beds works well too. Pots of marigolds strewn through the garden. Etc. The only thing I have a major problem with in my garden is the presence of mormon crickets / locusts. Some years they'll show up by the 1,000's. The only thing I can say is attracting a balance of birds works decently on those.