If we could just take step back...the reason I am emphasizing what I see as a very high standard is to make you aware of the prevailing themes found in the suttas that you have, a) asserted have the "potential" to be wrong, and, b) that the different approaches other than your own have dangerous ideas. I'm legitimately trying to share with you that the suttas maintain a very high, and very consistent standard. I'm trying to share this with you because you yourself advocate for a certain standard. So even if you leave this discussion with doubts about other approaches other than your own, you'll at least have seen that there are suttas that do not trivialize serious matters.thepea wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:34 pm Yes, I know the training. Yes, I know the path and the work to be done.
Yes, I understand aparent and ultimate view.
You seem to be pointing to this high level of standard, in a way that seems to suggest that I am not capable or worth of having practiced appropriately.
I’m in all complete honesty, openly letting you know that this is my reality. I have entered the stage of master apprentice. Cracked the dam, there is no power that can prevent this dam from breaking within 7 lifetimes according to suttas. I don’t give much importance to these things. This gift as explained offers me no doubt in the path, practice and what is required to do to finish the task.
But, what you seem to be failing to understand is parmis.
My parmis are not complete they are at a minimum of 25% in all categories and perhaps greater in some.
I may have to work, raise my children, battle the government against these horrific unwarranted Covid extremes, etc.... to build up in strong determination, compassion for others, or a variety of karmic reasons.
I am a very moral individual, strong willed, determined, a pain in the ass to some, but very moral. In no way a pushover but moral.
A saint in today’s times if you will, an angel. I will not rest in the face of tyranny against humanity. This doesn’t mean I will kill or physically hurt people, but I can crack the sheep with my cane in order to move them to safety or greener pastures. If you are a wooly creature and feel my cane you may be angered with me and think I am a horrible person. This is ok, I’ll bear this burden as I know the correct action required as I possess higher wisdom.
Regardless of what I do, this journey is ending.
There is an aspect of buddha in the teachings being overlooked or not given its proper importance. As a sotapanna, why wouldn’t I try to point this out in my own words and understandings. The real concern is why am I censored whenever I try to bring this to light?
Feel free to use "your own words" as you said, but if you continue to share them at the expense of these consistent themes found throughout the texts, the onus is on you to justify it. If you want to pit Goenka against another contemporary teacher, I say, go for it. But if you continue to pit thepea against the suttas, it is a direct slight against the absolute core of what people on this site hold in very high regard, and if you do so with no real effort to evidence your claims, while shifting into the position of the victim when people question you, it just comes off as needlessly provocative.
I'm not failing to understand the pāramī. What I'm trying to convey is that the sotāpanna according to the suttas, has a ridiculously high level of development, which would open the door to a corresponding degree of disillusionment with the world, not inflame passion towards it. That is the fundamental discrepancy with what you describing. I'm not saying a sotāpanna couldn't, I'm simply saying that all indications are that a sotāpanna would have to go against the nature of their Right View to generate desire towards the world.
For the record, I think this has so far been a very cordial exchange and I hope it continues that way.