Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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seeker242
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Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by seeker242 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:13 pm

Not a precepts violation. However, just because it's not a precepts violation does not mean it's not bad to do. Cigarettes are obviously bad for health. If "carelessly unhealthy" is all that is needed to qualify as a violation, then thousands of other things would also qualify. For example, McDonald's hamburger eaters are careless in that they carelessly disregard the health effects of eating McDonald's hamburger when the craving for a McDonald's hamburger arises. That does not mean eating McDonalds hamburgers all the time is breaking the precepts.

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budo
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Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by budo » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:09 pm

The Buddha always prefers less rather than more, you should err on the side of austerity, not luxury.

"Suppose that I had eaten and refused more food, being full, and having had as much as I needed. And there was some extra alms-food that was going to be thrown away. Then two mendicants were to come who were weak with hunger. I’d say to them: ‘Mendicants, I have eaten and refused more food, being full, and having had as much as I need. And there is this extra alms-food that’s going to be thrown away. Eat it if you like. Otherwise I’ll throw it out where there is little that grows, or drop it into water that has no living creatures.’

Then one of those mendicants thought: ‘The Buddha has eaten and refused more food. And he has some extra alms-food that’s going to be thrown away. If we don’t eat it he’ll throw it away. But the Buddha has also said: “Be my heirs in the teaching, not in material things.” And alms-food is a kind of material thing. Instead of eating this alms-food, why don’t I spend this day and night weak with hunger?’ And that’s what they did.

Then the second of those mendicants thought: ‘The Buddha has eaten and refused more food. And he has some extra alms-food that’s going to be thrown away. If we don’t eat it he’ll throw it away. Why don’t I eat this alms-food, then spend the day and night having got rid of my hunger and weakness?’ And that’s what they did.

Even though that mendicant, after eating the alms-food, spent the day and night rid of hunger and weakness, it is the former mendicant who is more worthy of respect and praise. Why is that? Because for a long time that will conduce to that mendicant being of few wishes, content, self-effacing, easy to look after, and energetic. So, mendicants, be my heirs in the teaching, not in material things. Out of compassion for you, I think: ‘How can my disciples become heirs in the teaching, not in material things?’” "

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Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by Laurens » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:37 pm

I think the debate here over whether or not tobacco is a violation of the 5th precept is irrelevant.

Maybe they should make Dhamma warnings on cigarette boxes:

"The fruits of all my actions, both wholesome and unwholesome, skillful and unskillful, I will inherit"

Make your choice, but don't pretend you'll cheat the smoking game and end up with something good from it. So far as I can tell vape pens and such are far less harmful, but not without health risks. I would suggest moving to vaping as an aid to quitting rather that a healthy way to smoke.
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:41 am

budo wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:58 am
Coffee can lead to carelessness. Coffee increases restlessness, one can become irritable which can lead to agitation, wrong speech, etc..
Sure, both nicotine and coffee can lead to restlessness. I was observing that stimulants like nicotine and coffee tend to wake you up, and are therefore less likely to lead to carelessness than depressants like alcohol.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:47 am

apparently even entertainment causes heedlessness;
"Apparently, headman, I haven't been able to get past you by saying, 'Enough, headman, put that aside. Don't ask me that.' So I will simply answer you. Any beings who are not devoid of passion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of passion, focus with even more passion on things inspiring passion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Any beings who are not devoid of aversion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of aversion, focus with even more aversion on things inspiring aversion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Any beings who are not devoid of delusion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of delusion, focus with even more delusion on things inspiring delusion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Thus the actor — himself intoxicated & heedless, having made others intoxicated & heedless — with the breakup of the body, after death, is reborn in what is called the hell of laughter.

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Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:48 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:47 am
apparently even entertainment causes heedlessness;
I think that's the point of it. :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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