Natural Pest Control

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
TRobinson465
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Natural Pest Control

Post by TRobinson465 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:19 am

Hello all,

A friend of mine asked a very interesting question and I wasn't sure about the answer.

The question is, is using a natural predator as a form of pest control an act of killing? For instance buying ladybugs for your garden, buying a carnivorous plant for your home, etc. I remember some stories in the Pali canon where people would tie cats with leashes to barrels to protect their food from rats. Do these acts count as bad kamma in any way?
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

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DooDoot
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:45 am

I Iived in a forest monastery once in Thailand, which, in the early days, had tigers. Dogs were brought into the monastery to prevent tigers from attacking novices and cats were brought in to stop rats eating the Pali sutta books.
Never ordained... not an anonymous-online-bhikkhu or ex-bhikkhu...

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salayatananirodha
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by salayatananirodha » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:00 am

What should really be in focus is harmlessness thought and intention. I don't know the answer to your question; if you're intent on harmlessness, these issues will be resolved.
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

TRobinson465
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by TRobinson465 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:11 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:45 am
I Iived in a forest monastery once in Thailand, which, in the early days, had tigers. Dogs were brought into the monastery to prevent tigers from attacking novices and cats were brought in to stop rats eating the Pali sutta books.
a dog can stop a tiger from attacking novices?
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:23 am

TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:11 am
a dog can stop a tiger from attacking novices?
While the tiger is eating the dog, the novice has time to run away...

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DooDoot
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:27 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:23 am
While the tiger is eating the dog, the novice has time to run away...
Yes. And the parents of the boy novices won't get angry at the monks and lose faith in the Triple Gem.
Never ordained... not an anonymous-online-bhikkhu or ex-bhikkhu...

TRobinson465
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by TRobinson465 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:30 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:23 am
TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:11 am
a dog can stop a tiger from attacking novices?
While the tiger is eating the dog, the novice has time to run away...
ohhhhh. That sounds awful....
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

TRobinson465
Posts: 519
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Location: United States

Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by TRobinson465 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:32 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:27 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:23 am
While the tiger is eating the dog, the novice has time to run away...
Yes. And the parents of the boy novices won't get angry at the monks and lose faith in the Triple Gem.
Makes sense. Although that doesn't really prove its not bad kamma to do that. albeit lesser of two evils at worst.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:36 am

TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:30 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:23 am
TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:11 am
a dog can stop a tiger from attacking novices?
While the tiger is eating the dog, the novice has time to run away...
ohhhhh. That sounds awful....
It's a very old joke.

We were camping in the woods, and my friend, who had gone to the toilet pit, came running screaming back to the main camp.

"What's happening?" we called. "What's the emergency?"

"I'm being chased by a huge grizzly bear"!!"

"You know you can't out-run a grizzly!" we replied.

"Yes, but I can out-run some of you!!"

dharmacorps
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by dharmacorps » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:18 pm

I have a plastic Owl on my balcony which keeps pigeons away, because apparently pigeons are afraid of Owls. Why don't I want pigeons on my balcony? They poop on it and sometimes try to nest there. I don't think it causes any harm, because the pigeons just fly onto another balcony, usually my neighbors :)

danish53
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by danish53 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:27 pm

Hello,

Great job, I also have same problem of pigeon, they always do dirty my balcony , I will try your Technic to keep pigeon away :| :thinking:

dharmacorps
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by dharmacorps » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:14 pm

I also have a few cats in my apartment, which the pigeons don't care about if they see them in the windows or through screen doors. I've had friends say "why not open the door and let nature take its course?" which of course, I wouldn't do because I would consider that fairly close to killing the birds.

chownah
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by chownah » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:06 am

TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:30 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:23 am
TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:11 am
a dog can stop a tiger from attacking novices?
While the tiger is eating the dog, the novice has time to run away...
ohhhhh. That sounds awful....
Can you tell me what a tiger in the wild would possibly eat that would not sound awful to you?
chownah

TRobinson465
Posts: 519
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Location: United States

Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by TRobinson465 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:14 am

chownah wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:06 am
TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:30 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:23 am


While the tiger is eating the dog, the novice has time to run away...
ohhhhh. That sounds awful....
Can you tell me what a tiger in the wild would possibly eat that would not sound awful to you?
chownah
im talking about the act of bringing animals to be literal bait. not so much the act of a dog getting eaten by a tiger, as Tigers are natural carnivores who cannot survive without meat and must hunt. I know in context it sounds kinda silly, but the act of bringing animals as decoys to be eaten just sounds awful to me.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

Digity
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Re: Natural Pest Control

Post by Digity » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:03 pm

I struggled with this question too, since I had aphids infesting my kale one summer, but ended up doing nothing. I just accepted the fact that they were there and got rid of the kale that was overly infested. However, recently I had a lot of carpenter ants in my house and felt I had no choice but to kill them with ant bait. They were burrowing through the wood in my house. I didn't see any other way to resolve the issue, since they were in the walls of my house.

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