when i was at the monestary,i attain the cessation of verbal fabrication, which divides in applied verbal thought and sustain verbal thought
Follow the instructions and you attain the same thing
start by applying the verbal word (thought) one time, second time, over and over
even if takes you one hundred times or more
concentration on the word thought, repeating it over and over
until you detached from it.
and your awareness will be, like you are saperated from the applied word
since your awareness is detached, it is like you listening to the word thought
when you awereness listening to the word thought, the applied thought became sustain thought
as you are not applying the word no more, but aware of it working by itself
after awhile the sustain thought (word thought) ceases, as it does not have support of applied thought
when sustain verbal thought ceases, there is total silence, and you cant here anything.
not thinking verbal thoughts are not samething as cessation of verbal fabrication.
the difference is regular not thinking, still hears a sound if its present.
with cessation of both applied verbal thought and sustain verbal thought, you do not hear anything.
the reason why the word thought was being chosen as concentration object, as it does not bring the imagination of what the word means in a image, which will break concentration.
i'm sure 100 percent that if you apply this method, you will attain the cessation of verbal fabrication.
be mindful english is my second language.
may all attain Jhanas as there are the way to insight.
cessation of verbal fabrication
Re: cessation of verbal fabrication
i am thinking similar things and this has to do with my experience. however i dont have the special knowledge of jhanas to help me now.
Re: cessation of verbal fabrication
altar what do you mean you are thinking same thing?
and what do you mean, when you speak about special knowlegde?
and what do you mean to help you out.
and what do you mean, when you speak about special knowlegde?
and what do you mean to help you out.
Re: cessation of verbal fabrication
That's interesting, thanks for sharing. Was this the method taught at the monastery, and do you mind saying which monastery this was? I haven't heard of this method before. So are you saying this is the equivalent of the 2nd jhana?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
Re: cessation of verbal fabrication
this is cessation of verbal fabrication
that is what I'm saying
no technique was not thought in the monastery
the monastery i was in is Thailand, in fang city (if you want me to find the name for you i can do it)
i do not remember the name.
no this is not equal the second Jhana as there was not other Jhana factors present
this is total concentration on verbal thought
in Jhana the concentration is between Jhana factors
this is pure concentration just on verbal thoughts (fabrication)
but if you would compare it as the cessation of applied and sustain thought, then it is similar
my next goal is cease the body fabrication (which is breath)
the breath also divide into applied breath and sustain breath
when you breath in and out that is applied breath
when you hold your breath that is sustain breath
i meditated 5 hour trying to cease the breath and no luck
that is what I'm saying
no technique was not thought in the monastery
the monastery i was in is Thailand, in fang city (if you want me to find the name for you i can do it)
i do not remember the name.
no this is not equal the second Jhana as there was not other Jhana factors present
this is total concentration on verbal thought
in Jhana the concentration is between Jhana factors
this is pure concentration just on verbal thoughts (fabrication)
but if you would compare it as the cessation of applied and sustain thought, then it is similar
my next goal is cease the body fabrication (which is breath)
the breath also divide into applied breath and sustain breath
when you breath in and out that is applied breath
when you hold your breath that is sustain breath
i meditated 5 hour trying to cease the breath and no luck
Re: cessation of verbal fabrication
It seems to me that the Buddha taught that meditating to stop the breath was not appropriate in the Dhamma....or something to that effect....I can't seem to find that reference though....does anyone know where it is or if perhaps I am mistaken?
chownah
chownah
Re: cessation of verbal fabrication
on the eve of his enlightenment, or towards the end of his practices of "absention" and severe asceticism, gotama said, "suppose i were to withhold the in breath," and so with the outbreath and both, and though he experienced sharp and painful racking feelings, he didn't achieve any state truly worthy.
gena i dont think to go into full detail but it has to do with noticing thoughts and what could have been speech arise and some uncertainty and equivocation about the matter. it's not the cessation of speech but there is something about that. i read a quote of ajahn chah's recently which said if you want to get rid of speech you cannot.
special knowledge i mean any knowledge that would arise dependent on or is inherent to jhanas, like wisdoms.
i hope one day to experience the wandering kuti life, too.
from suburban new jersey, zack. but it looks increasingly like domesticated woods, to me at least.
gena i dont think to go into full detail but it has to do with noticing thoughts and what could have been speech arise and some uncertainty and equivocation about the matter. it's not the cessation of speech but there is something about that. i read a quote of ajahn chah's recently which said if you want to get rid of speech you cannot.
special knowledge i mean any knowledge that would arise dependent on or is inherent to jhanas, like wisdoms.
i hope one day to experience the wandering kuti life, too.
from suburban new jersey, zack. but it looks increasingly like domesticated woods, to me at least.
Re: cessation of verbal fabrication
altar you misunderstanding what the buddha said
cessation of breath is not by holding your breath.
first comes cessation of thoughts
then comes cessation of breath
then comes cessation of feeling and perception.
altar read this sutta so you have right view
Rahogata Sutta: Secluded
translated from the Pali by
Nyanaponika Thera
© 1998–2011
Alternate translation: Thanissaro
Once a certain monk came to see the Blessed One and, after saluting him respectfully, sat down at one side. Seated thus, he spoke to the Blessed One as follows:
"When I went into seclusion, while I was in solitude, this thought occurred to me: 'Three feelings have been taught by the Blessed One: pleasant, painful and neutral feelings. But the Blessed One has also said that whatever is felt is within suffering.' Now, with reference to what was it stated by the Blessed One that whatever is felt is within suffering?"
"Well spoken, monk, well spoken! While three feelings have been taught by me, the pleasant, the painful and the neutral, yet I have also said that whatever is felt is within suffering. This, however, was stated by me with reference to the impermanence of (all) conditioned phenomena.[1] I have said it because conditioned phenomena are liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation and to change. It is with reference to this that I have stated: 'Whatever is felt is within suffering.'
"I have further taught, monk, the gradual cessation of conditioned phenomena. In him who has attained the first meditative absorption,[2] speech has ceased. Having attained the second absorption, thought-conception and discursive thinking has ceased. Having attained the third absorption, joy has ceased. Having attained the fourth absorption, inhalation and exhalation have ceased. Having attained the sphere of the infinity of space, perception of form[3] has ceased. Having attained the sphere of the infinity of consciousness, the perception of the sphere of the infinity of space has ceased. Having attained the sphere of no-thingness, the perception of the sphere of infinity of consciousness has ceased. Having attained the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, the perception of the sphere of no-thingness has ceased. Having attained the cessation of perception and feeling, perception and feeling have ceased. In a taint-free monk greed has ceased, hatred has ceased, delusion has ceased.
"I have further taught, monk the gradual stilling of conditioned phenomena.[4] In him who has attained the first meditative absorption, speech has been stilled. Having attained the second absorption, thought-conception and discursive thinking have been stilled... (To be continued as above, up to:) Having attained the cessation of perception and feeling, perception and feeling have been stilled. In a taint-free monk greed has been stilled, hatred has been stilled, delusion has been stilled.
"There are, monk, these six quietenings. In him who has attained the first absorption, speech is quietened. Having attained the second absorption, thought-conception and discursive thinking are quietened. Having attained the third absorption, rapture is quietened. Having attained the fourth absorption, inhalation and exhalation is quietened.[5] Having attained the cessation of perception and feeling, perception and feeling are quietened. In a taint-free monk greed is quietened, hatred is quietened, delusion is quietened."
altar this is the way to practice.
cessation of breath is not by holding your breath.
first comes cessation of thoughts
then comes cessation of breath
then comes cessation of feeling and perception.
altar read this sutta so you have right view
Rahogata Sutta: Secluded
translated from the Pali by
Nyanaponika Thera
© 1998–2011
Alternate translation: Thanissaro
Once a certain monk came to see the Blessed One and, after saluting him respectfully, sat down at one side. Seated thus, he spoke to the Blessed One as follows:
"When I went into seclusion, while I was in solitude, this thought occurred to me: 'Three feelings have been taught by the Blessed One: pleasant, painful and neutral feelings. But the Blessed One has also said that whatever is felt is within suffering.' Now, with reference to what was it stated by the Blessed One that whatever is felt is within suffering?"
"Well spoken, monk, well spoken! While three feelings have been taught by me, the pleasant, the painful and the neutral, yet I have also said that whatever is felt is within suffering. This, however, was stated by me with reference to the impermanence of (all) conditioned phenomena.[1] I have said it because conditioned phenomena are liable to destruction, to evanescence, to fading away, to cessation and to change. It is with reference to this that I have stated: 'Whatever is felt is within suffering.'
"I have further taught, monk, the gradual cessation of conditioned phenomena. In him who has attained the first meditative absorption,[2] speech has ceased. Having attained the second absorption, thought-conception and discursive thinking has ceased. Having attained the third absorption, joy has ceased. Having attained the fourth absorption, inhalation and exhalation have ceased. Having attained the sphere of the infinity of space, perception of form[3] has ceased. Having attained the sphere of the infinity of consciousness, the perception of the sphere of the infinity of space has ceased. Having attained the sphere of no-thingness, the perception of the sphere of infinity of consciousness has ceased. Having attained the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, the perception of the sphere of no-thingness has ceased. Having attained the cessation of perception and feeling, perception and feeling have ceased. In a taint-free monk greed has ceased, hatred has ceased, delusion has ceased.
"I have further taught, monk the gradual stilling of conditioned phenomena.[4] In him who has attained the first meditative absorption, speech has been stilled. Having attained the second absorption, thought-conception and discursive thinking have been stilled... (To be continued as above, up to:) Having attained the cessation of perception and feeling, perception and feeling have been stilled. In a taint-free monk greed has been stilled, hatred has been stilled, delusion has been stilled.
"There are, monk, these six quietenings. In him who has attained the first absorption, speech is quietened. Having attained the second absorption, thought-conception and discursive thinking are quietened. Having attained the third absorption, rapture is quietened. Having attained the fourth absorption, inhalation and exhalation is quietened.[5] Having attained the cessation of perception and feeling, perception and feeling are quietened. In a taint-free monk greed is quietened, hatred is quietened, delusion is quietened."
altar this is the way to practice.
Re: cessation of verbal fabrication
That sutta is talking about the widely known and it seems debated issue of the breath stopping in Jhana. It is not something that can be forced, it would only come about through Jhana.
Re: cessation of verbal fabrication
Anyone who concludes a post by saying " (Name ) this is the way to practice " has lost my interest.
There is no THIS is the way to practice.
There is no THIS is the way to practice.