enough motivation for stream entry?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Post by rowyourboat » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:08 pm

Clinical depression makes a person has poor sleep, poor appetite, early morning waking, poor concentration, guilt, shame, helpless, worthless and feel sad and suicidal. This has none of that. Depression is a feeling (mood only), this is an understanding (insight+mild mood). The former is a the result of life events or sometimes seemingly no cause, the latter is a result of specific contemplation in this manner or a results of vipassana/insight meditation. No need to get the two mixed up! Golf balls and limes may look similar (spheres) but they serve very different functions.
:smile:
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

User avatar
salty-J
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:25 am
Location: Los Angeles, California

Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Post by salty-J » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:58 am

rowyourboat wrote:Clinical depression makes a person has poor sleep, poor appetite, early morning waking, poor concentration, guilt, shame, helpless, worthless and feel sad and suicidal. This has none of that. Depression is a feeling (mood only), this is an understanding (insight+mild mood). The former is a the result of life events or sometimes seemingly no cause, the latter is a result of specific contemplation in this manner or a results of vipassana/insight meditation. No need to get the two mixed up! Golf balls and limes may look similar (spheres) but they serve very different functions.
:smile:
oh no, no, I am not mixing them up, I am just sort of joking about how the survey resembles those one might find online, or in a magazine to get an idea if you should ask your doctor about ADHD, or fibromyalgia, or depression, for example; if you answered "yes" to 7 or more of these questions.....you see the truth of Dukkha! :tongue:
I still find the fact that I'd rate the mass majority of those points on the list with a high number depressing, but I believe, intellectually anyway, that it is because of my clinging to views...
"It is what it is." -foreman infamous for throwing wrenches in fits of rage

User avatar
Vardali
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:56 am

Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Post by Vardali » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:45 am

I am still busy trying to aim at streamentry without "wanting" it. So forme, Guy's post was spot on ;)
And so for me it is currently perfectly sufficient, to say "this is good enough" and actually fully truely meaning it :)

with metta,
V.

User avatar
salmon
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:55 am

Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Post by salmon » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:32 am

rowyourboat wrote: Ben I am in the process of laying down the attitudes and beliefs required for stream entry for some students who had difficulty with the process. It has forced me to identify the key factors which helped a few of us in the process. Of course there is no certainty about it but we can try. I thought I would share it with the forum. It may not be useful to many people but then there maybe a few... :anjali:
Hello RYB,

The one important attitude that practitioners seeking the stream need to cultivate is honesty. When you can brutally honest with yourself on your practice, moments of giving in to defilements, improvements, experiences, etc, you will find your meditation progresses quickly and smoothly. Of course, it is not the ONLY factor, but it is, rather, an assisting factor.

I find myself unable to do the survey because I am unable to overcome my ego wanting me to give all questions a perfect 10. Does that mean that I have all the qualities to become a stream entrant? No. It means I have a long way to go in this battle with the ego. :rofl:

The very bit I can do for myself now is to accept the uncomfortable truth that the ego is winning this battle in deceiving myself that I am a good person and that I am doing it all right.

Instead, I think the questions should be...
1. How regularly am I maintaining my 5 precepts flawlessly and faultlessly?
2. How regularly do I check myself, and bring my mind back to normalcy, when I'm liking or disliking something?
3. How regularly am I watching my mind as it bounces from past to future?

No need to answer them out. All we need is to know the answer deep inside :anjali:
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Post by rowyourboat » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:15 pm

Hi Salmon

Honesty is indeed extremely important- otherwise we will deceive ourselves as to who we really are in terms of our practice and defilements. Without knowing these the whole path is sabotaged.

with metta :anjali:

RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

User avatar
adosa
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Post by adosa » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:25 pm

Hi rowyourboat,

So what do you make of someone who would rate highly on your test and yet still caves into clinging and craving for a whole host of unsatisfactory pleasures, some less wholesome than others?

Isn't this part of the struggle of the dry insight approach, sans jhana? Without experiencing the bliss of jhana most inevitably seek pleasures elsewhere.

Just wondering....


adosa :smile:
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Post by rowyourboat » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:34 am

Hi Adosa

You have just defined a stream entrant!

Yes, jhana is good. It helps for the reasons you mentioned. A 'dry insight meditator' (never met one who hasn't with time accidentally gone into jhana :tongue: ) if he continues with the practice in an unbroken manner should not have the problem of craving. However sometimes vipassana insight can become distanced from 'reality' and even though people maybe fantastic in their meditation, when it comes to the real world- their cravings are intact. I find that yonisomanasikara might bridge the gap in those situations. They also need to have firm grounding in right view (four noble truths).

However jhana practice blocks my thoughts too much during the waking period. So I have stopped doing it. I am experimenting with mindfulness filled with saddha, sila, compassion and dana- similar to the one recommended by the Buddha to Mahanama.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta

:anjali:
RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Reductor
Posts: 1382
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Post by Reductor » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:40 am

rowyourboat wrote: However jhana practice blocks my thoughts too much during the waking period. So I have stopped doing it.
RYB
What do you mean by this? :shrug:

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Post by rowyourboat » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:09 pm

Well too much samadhi (unification of mind)-like the type generated by jhana, has a tendency to block my mind from retrieving memories- or to put it in another way i have 'too much peace' with it, to be effective in a busy working life. Some people, I suspect- those who are more prone to find the world a harsh place, tend to block off the world more. This linked with samadhi makes for forgetfulness. I am reminded that the Buddha said that he wouldn't teach anapanasati to those who don't have mindfulness. It is easy to get into samadhi but have weak sati- this then becomes a problem due to unbalanced faculties. So I am developing mindfulness more and it has helped. However I find that this is a problem only for certain people and not others. So I am not saying that this will affect you!
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: lostitude and 58 guests