Bare Awareness and Nibbana

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Ceisiwr
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Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by Ceisiwr »

Greetings everyone,

I have just finished reading this article where Ven. Anālayo argues that bare awareness can lead all the way to Nibbana. I would be interested to hear everyone’s thoughts on this?
Bare awareness does after all appear to have a place in accounts of early Buddhist meditation. In the satipa††håna scheme this place comes into its own alongside a comprehensive exploration of the contemplated phenomena from internal and external perspectives and insight into their nature of arising and passing away. Building on these aspects of the practice, one of the modalities of satipa††håna meditation can then be the cultivation of mindfulness just for the sake of being mindful. The terminology employed in this instruction recurs in an exposition by Malu∫kyaputta of an injunction, also given to Båhiya, to remain with bare awareness of sense experience. Such practice is, according to the Påli discourses and their parallels, clearly invested with the potential of leading to awakening.
The intuition by Ñåˆaponika Thera that “bare attention” (or “bare awareness”) is a valid modality of mindfulness practice appears to be quite accurate. Such practice requires stepping back from the usual involvement with experience by way of cultivating receptive and non-interfering mindfulness.
https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... reness.pdf

Metta

:)
“For that is false, bhikkhu, which has a deceptive nature, and that is true which has an undeceptive nature—Nibbāna. Therefore a bhikkhu possessing this truth possesses the supreme foundation of truth. For this, bhikkhu, is the supreme noble truth, namely, Nibbāna, which has an undeceptive nature.” MN 140

santa100
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by santa100 »

There's always an element of samadhi, even with the dry-insight route. See Ven. Gunaratana's "The Jhanas" for an explanation on momentary concentration/khanikaSamadhi.

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by Crazy cloud »

The way it's presented here seems to be in accordance with the way Ajahn Chah instructed his disciples.
Thanks, looking forward to reading the whole article first.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

SteRo
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by SteRo »

Ceisiwr wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:47 am
Greetings everyone,

I have just finished reading this article where Ven. Anālayo argues that bare awareness can lead all the way to Nibbana. I would be interested to hear everyone’s thoughts on this?
Anālayo's conclusion is unfounded. Why? Sutta tells about an instruction having been received directly from the Buddha. Anālayo's fabrications have nothing to do with the sutta.

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confusedlayman
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:47 am
Greetings everyone,

I have just finished reading this article where Ven. Anālayo argues that bare awareness can lead all the way to Nibbana. I would be interested to hear everyone’s thoughts on this?
Bare awareness does after all appear to have a place in accounts of early Buddhist meditation. In the satipa††håna scheme this place comes into its own alongside a comprehensive exploration of the contemplated phenomena from internal and external perspectives and insight into their nature of arising and passing away. Building on these aspects of the practice, one of the modalities of satipa††håna meditation can then be the cultivation of mindfulness just for the sake of being mindful. The terminology employed in this instruction recurs in an exposition by Malu∫kyaputta of an injunction, also given to Båhiya, to remain with bare awareness of sense experience. Such practice is, according to the Påli discourses and their parallels, clearly invested with the potential of leading to awakening.
The intuition by Ñåˆaponika Thera that “bare attention” (or “bare awareness”) is a valid modality of mindfulness practice appears to be quite accurate. Such practice requires stepping back from the usual involvement with experience by way of cultivating receptive and non-interfering mindfulness.
https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... reness.pdf

Metta

:)
how long can u maintain bare awareness?
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by Ceisiwr »

confusedlayman wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:39 pm
Ceisiwr wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:47 am
Greetings everyone,

I have just finished reading this article where Ven. Anālayo argues that bare awareness can lead all the way to Nibbana. I would be interested to hear everyone’s thoughts on this?
Bare awareness does after all appear to have a place in accounts of early Buddhist meditation. In the satipa††håna scheme this place comes into its own alongside a comprehensive exploration of the contemplated phenomena from internal and external perspectives and insight into their nature of arising and passing away. Building on these aspects of the practice, one of the modalities of satipa††håna meditation can then be the cultivation of mindfulness just for the sake of being mindful. The terminology employed in this instruction recurs in an exposition by Malu∫kyaputta of an injunction, also given to Båhiya, to remain with bare awareness of sense experience. Such practice is, according to the Påli discourses and their parallels, clearly invested with the potential of leading to awakening.
The intuition by Ñåˆaponika Thera that “bare attention” (or “bare awareness”) is a valid modality of mindfulness practice appears to be quite accurate. Such practice requires stepping back from the usual involvement with experience by way of cultivating receptive and non-interfering mindfulness.
https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... reness.pdf

Metta

:)
how long can u maintain bare awareness?
My main practice is Anapanasati. I do occasionally use “bare awareness”, but i don’t use it as a main practice. However, reflecting upon the article I may take it up as a main practice in its own right going forward.

Metta
“For that is false, bhikkhu, which has a deceptive nature, and that is true which has an undeceptive nature—Nibbāna. Therefore a bhikkhu possessing this truth possesses the supreme foundation of truth. For this, bhikkhu, is the supreme noble truth, namely, Nibbāna, which has an undeceptive nature.” MN 140

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confusedlayman
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:51 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:39 pm
Ceisiwr wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:47 am
Greetings everyone,

I have just finished reading this article where Ven. Anālayo argues that bare awareness can lead all the way to Nibbana. I would be interested to hear everyone’s thoughts on this?



https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... reness.pdf

Metta

:)
how long can u maintain bare awareness?
My main practice is Anapanasati. I do occasionally use “bare awareness”, but i don’t use it as a main practice. However, reflecting upon the article I may take it up as a main practice in its own right going forward.

Metta
I use bare awareness most of the time but u cant use 24 x 7 as u need focused awareness (conciousness) to live normal life so that dependent origination can kick start.
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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mikenz66
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by mikenz66 »

santa100 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:17 pm
There's always an element of samadhi, even with the dry-insight route. See Ven. Gunaratana's "The Jhanas" for an explanation on momentary concentration/khanikaSamadhi.
Yes, though the article doesn't directly address it, presumably Bahiya, and other wanderers who awakened quickly in the suttas, had well-developed sila and concentration.

It's interesting that Bhikkhu Nanananda's exposition on bare awareness, quoted in the article:
The basic principle in this training seems to be the
discipline to stop short at bare awareness, ditthe
ditthamattaµ, sute sutamattam, etc. The latter half of the
discourse seems to indicate what happens when one goes
through that training [… what is] meant by the term na tena
is the attitude of not thinking ‘in terms of’ whatever is seen,
heard, sensed or cognized. That is to say, not imagining
‘thereby’.
does not refer to the the discourse to Malunkyaputta, which Bhikkhu Analayo subsequently discusses, since it provides significant clarification.
In his lectures on Bhikkhu Nananada's Nibbana Sermons, Bhikkhu Analayo did comment about how much easier it is, in a digital age, to locate related suttas by simply searching, and though Bhikkhu Nanananda had a rather encyclopedic memory, he did not have such instant access to the entire canon.
For us, now, it is particularly simple to go to: https://suttacentral.net/ud1.10/ and look at the list of parallels!

:heart:
Mike

SarathW
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by SarathW »

What is the Pali word for "bare awareness"?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Sam Vara
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by Sam Vara »

SarathW wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:16 pm
What is the Pali word for "bare awareness"?
I don't think there is anything closer than sati, as Nanaponika coined the term when discussing mindfulness:
to tap the actual and potential power of mindfulness it is necessary to understand and deliberately cultivate it in its basic, unalloyed form, which we shall call bare attention.

By bare attention we understand the clear and single-minded awareness of what actually happens to us and in us, at the successive moments of perception. It is called "bare" because it attends to the bare facts of a perception without reacting to them by deed, speech or mental comment.
(The Power of Mindfulness)

Pulsar
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by Pulsar »

SarathW Writes
What is the Pali word for "bare awareness"?

Vinnana-matta, it is also translated as 'bare-cognition', by some scholars.

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DooDoot
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by DooDoot »

Pulsar wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:41 am
Vinnana-matta, it is also translated as 'bare-cognition', by some scholars.
The term appears to be "viññātamattaṃ" rather than "viññānamattaṃ"
viññāta
pp. of vijānāti
known; understood; perceived; recognized.
vijānāti
vi + ñā + nā; ñā is changed to jā
knows; understands; perceives; recognizes.
Viññātamattaṃ is found in the following Pali:
In that case, when it comes to things that are to be seen, heard, thought, and known: in the seen will be merely the seen; in the heard will be merely the heard; in the thought will be merely the thought; in the known will be merely the known.

Ettha ca te, mālukyaputta, diṭṭhasutamutaviññātabbesu dhammesu diṭṭhe diṭṭhamattaṃ bhavissati, sute sutamattaṃ bhavissati, mute mutamattaṃ bhavissati, viññāte viññātamattaṃ bhavissati

https://suttacentral.net/sn35.95/en/sujato
Since the term "viññātamattaṃ" is only used in one of four contexts above, it appears the term "viññātamattaṃ" would not be applicable to (the majority of) Satipatthana, as Ven. Analayo suggests. It appears Ven. Analayo's attempted correlations & conclusions are tenuous. In short, the term viññāta does not appear to mean the sixfold viññāna.

:smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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cappuccino
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by cappuccino »

Ceisiwr wrote: I have just finished reading this article where Ven. Anālayo argues that bare awareness can lead all the way to Nibbana.
hm…

read the scriptures

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by Crazy cloud »

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:50 am
Ceisiwr wrote: I have just finished reading this article where Ven. Anālayo argues that bare awareness can lead all the way to Nibbana.
hm…

read the scriptures
It's not about what you do, it's about how you do it. Before you do anything there must be awareness, and by remembering this sequence, one goes back to bare awareness countless times during the day and notes for oneself that subtle feeling of cessation in letting go. When one gets used to do it like this, it becomes automated and the subtleness becomes denser. It means that one cuts short of one's own creations before they become a struggle, and meditation is effortless. The Bahia sutta is a perfect example of specific teachings given to a practitioner that was ripe for the ending goal in that instant it was said. The miracle of instruction, I guess ...
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

SarathW
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Re: Bare Awareness and Nibbana

Post by SarathW »

mute mutamattaṃ bhavissati
What is the English translation for "Mute"?
My understanding was it refer to the nose, tongue, and body.
If my understanding is wrong, why nose, tongue, and body is not part of this series?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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