Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:04 pm

Correctness of the Method
People come to practise mindfulness meditation in your centre with full confidence in you. So it is vital that meditation instructors should teach, instruct and guide the meditators precisely and fully to enable them to attain concentration and insight. You must instruct them correctly in the Mahāsi meditation method in accordance with the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta to attain the seven purifications (visuddhi) and the sixteen insight knowledges (vipassanā-ñāṇa) from analytical knowledge of mind and matter (nāma­rūpa-pariccheda-ñāṇa) to reflective knowledge (pacca­vekkhaṇa-ñāṇa), by contemplating the physical and mental phenomena at the moment of their occurrence.

I have heard that some branch centres are teaching all kinds of meditation methods, though they named their centres as Mahāsi meditation centres. That is very unscrupulous. I would like to warn them through you, that as the name indicates, they should teach the precise and correct Mahāsi meditation method only. I would also like to convey my advice for them to scrutinise and assess the progress or otherwise of their meditators closely and carefully in accordance with the sermon on the progress of insight meditation, and to give methodical guidance correctly and precisely.
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thepea
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by thepea » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:57 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:15 pm
thepea wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:06 pm
Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:11 pm


Why not? Is it a secret teaching, or beyond your powers of expression?
I’m not a qualified teacher, nor is it something to be understood from reading.
Would one have to attend a course with a qualified teacher to understand it?
Goenka teaches every course, the qualification is always consistent.

thepea
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by thepea » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:08 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:04 pm
Correctness of the Method
People come to practise mindfulness meditation in your centre with full confidence in you. So it is vital that meditation instructors should teach, instruct and guide the meditators precisely and fully to enable them to attain concentration and insight. You must instruct them correctly in the Mahāsi meditation method in accordance with the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta to attain the seven purifications (visuddhi) and the sixteen insight knowledges (vipassanā-ñāṇa) from analytical knowledge of mind and matter (nāma­rūpa-pariccheda-ñāṇa) to reflective knowledge (pacca­vekkhaṇa-ñāṇa), by contemplating the physical and mental phenomena at the moment of their occurrence.

I have heard that some branch centres are teaching all kinds of meditation methods, though they named their centres as Mahāsi meditation centres. That is very unscrupulous. I would like to warn them through you, that as the name indicates, they should teach the precise and correct Mahāsi meditation method only. I would also like to convey my advice for them to scrutinise and assess the progress or otherwise of their meditators closely and carefully in accordance with the sermon on the progress of insight meditation, and to give methodical guidance correctly and precisely.
Seems like even the mahasi method is struggling to maintain pure concise teaching.
It seems clear that most of not all theravaden branches are struggling to maintain the essence of dhamma, and few will do the work.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:55 pm

thepea wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:08 pm
Seems like even the mahasi method is struggling to maintain pure concise teaching. It seems clear that most of not all theravaden branches are struggling to maintain the essence of dhamma, and few will do the work.
It seems to me that maintaining standards is always going to be a struggle. Swimming downstream is easy, but going against the current of desire requires constant effort.

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is detached, humble, clean in life, and reflective.” (Dhammapada verse 245)

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Sam Vara
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:06 pm

thepea wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:57 pm

Goenka teaches every course, the qualification is always consistent.
So how would one get to understand this essential teaching that you can't reveal here?

SarathW
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by SarathW » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:40 pm

Is there a Buddha's meditation method?
Is Buddha's method differ from Goenka and Mhasi methods?
What is the reason for having one method only for different kinds of people?
Is one method fit all?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

thepea
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by thepea » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:58 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:06 pm
thepea wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:57 pm

Goenka teaches every course, the qualification is always consistent.
So how would one get to understand this essential teaching that you can't reveal here?
Well, it has to start with renunciation. Whether for 10 days or longer in other retreat environments.
Just becoming a monastic is not enough, you have to get to work with continuous meditation practice, you can’t just study and produce dhamma literature.
It’s up to the individual to find a technique that resonates with them. Be that goenka, mahasi etc...
But the environment for practice must be right.
I’m expressing from what I’ve noticed over the past 15 yrs. in the srilanken viharas the monks seem established but there is no environment for dhamma to spread, within the lay community there seems much agitation and confusion. From what bhante has said there seems a constant struggle to maintain the purity of mahasi technique. I feel strongly that one needs to find one technique and get digging until water is found, then additional religious study can be used to investigate finer dhamma points. Not enough digging and just study is incomplete and leads to confusion.
I think a cleaning of house is necessary within the monastic community, but difficult with everyone manipulating sutras to serve their point.

thepea
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by thepea » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:59 pm

SarathW wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:40 pm
Is there a Buddha's meditation method?
Is Buddha's method differ from Goenka and Mhasi methods?
What is the reason for having one method only for different kinds of people?
Is one method fit all?
Goenka and mahasi methods are both very different at the gross levels. They culminate at insight but one needs to arrive.

thepea
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by thepea » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:50 am

So the Bhikkhu should not have been doing medical practice? Sorry but a lot of info here not clear what your pointing towards.

sentinel
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by sentinel » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:46 pm

The method of Goenka Mahasi Pak Auk Lp Tien Aj Sumedho etc appear to be different . And all of them seems to be non matching with what Buddha taught .
:coffee:

binocular
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by binocular » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:49 pm

thepea wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:52 am
As stated I recieved dhamma from goenka.
How can you be so sure??

If you in fact know that what you have received is the Dhamma, that kind of self-reflexive knowledge means that you have attained at least stream entry.

Now, that is a pretty big claim to make, even if just implicitly.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

binocular
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by binocular » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:50 pm

SarathW wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:40 pm
Is there a Buddha's meditation method?
Is Buddha's method differ from Goenka and Mhasi methods?
What is the reason for having one method only for different kinds of people?
Is one method fit all?
The Buddha didn't do methods and techniques.
:meditate:
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

binocular
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Re: Monastics and suicide

Post by binocular » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:51 pm

thepea wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:36 am
Ah the old theravaden hook line and sinker, another fish on! Why go anywhere else trust us
How is your advertising of Goenka any different?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

sentinel
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by sentinel » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:02 pm

The Buddha does has meditation method but appear different from the rest . Rising and falling for those Masters were not the same as what Buddha taught .
:coffee:

thepea
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Re: Meditation retreats - sundry issues (split from "Monastics and suicide")

Post by thepea » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:40 pm

binocular wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:49 pm
thepea wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:52 am
As stated I recieved dhamma from goenka.
How can you be so sure??

If you in fact know that what you have received is the Dhamma, that kind of self-reflexive knowledge means that you have attained at least stream entry.

Now, that is a pretty big claim to make, even if just implicitly.
This has been discussed before here.

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