eating in one session a day, success stories?

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frank k
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eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by frank k » Fri May 17, 2019 2:52 pm

Anyone have any long term success stories to share on eating once a day?
I'm interested because the Buddha said eating once a day was the best, and I've not had success doing it long term the times I've tried. Eating an octo/lavo vegetarian diet, after about 5 days my energy level just completely crashes (lethargic all day, no energy to meditate or do anything). If I add a lot more butter to that one meal, then I can go about 2 weeks before I get the energy crash.

I suspect if I ate an omnivore diet like the Buddha, it would work better than my octo/lavo diet at being stronger and more energetic.


For the past 10 years, I've been mostly eating twice a day:
7am: a light breakfast of oatmeal and dry fruit and nuts.
12 noon: my main meal, a typical example would consist of
1. main meal of 2 large eggs, brown rice or qinoa or multigrain bread/tortilla, steamed dark greens, other veggies, tempeh, hummus, salsa.
2. large smoothie, usually a dairy one, sometimes a vegan one
lassi type yogurt smoothie consisting of some combination of whole milk or lowfat milk yogurt, half & half (half cream half whole milk), a few spoons of maple syrup, some available fruit like mango, or blue berries, or orange.

a typical vegan smoothie would be banana, a date, an orange, some nut like walnut or coconut, water.
3. one spoonful of oxylent multivitamin powder mix added to smoothie.
4. I don't do coffee, tea, caffeine, for two reasons. One, I don't want a crutch for boosting energy, and two, the energy boost from caffeine comes with a cost, then you need more sleep and you get a much more intense energy crash. I only drink water outside of the 5 hour eating window.

So with my two meals per day in the 5 hour window, my energy level is even and very good all day. Whereas on one meal a day, I would have maybe 4-6 hours a day feeling very lethargic.

I sleep about 4-5 hours a night, and take an afternoon nap between 30-90min.

So I'm interested in hearing success stories with one meal a day, and details I'm most specifically interested in:
1) how many hours of day do you need to sleep
2) do you take a caffeine
3) what do you eat
4) how would you compare doing one meal a day, the energy level throughout the day, compared with what I'm doing with 2 meals
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Idappaccayata
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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by Idappaccayata » Fri May 17, 2019 3:08 pm

4 or 5 hours is not enough sleep. I would try increasing that to at least 7, then see if it makes a difference. A five hour window is also pretty good as far as the health benefits of intermittent fasting.
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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by DNS » Fri May 17, 2019 4:01 pm

I agree with Idap you may not be getting enough sleep. You should have plenty of energy on a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet. I eat mostly vegan, which has even less fat and I still feel like I have enough energy, so far.

I've been doing the one meal a day program for over 20 years. I'll eat dinner occasionally for social reasons, but for the most part I have ate just the one meal around lunch time. Sometimes I get hungry in the evening and I'll have a little fruit or carrot juice, which I assume is permissible as even the monks take some juice in the evenings. However, lately in the last couple of years, I don't even take juice in the evenings.

In the last couple of years or so I've been doing my one meal a day at a Las Vegas casino buffet, all 7 days a week. Is that cheating? :tongue:

A few of the casino buffets here are very vegan friendly. I'll eat vegan sushi rolls, tofu-veggie stir fry, scrambled tofu, kimchi, salads, guacamole, salsa, sweet potato and other options too. A couple of casino buffets here even have vegan desserts. :o

See also this big topic on one meal a day:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3045

dharmacorps
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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by dharmacorps » Fri May 17, 2019 4:51 pm

This is probably an individual thing, but when I was a vegetarian, I could never do one meal a day. On a omnivorous diet I at least potentially can do one meal a day.

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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by budo » Fri May 17, 2019 7:30 pm

Check out snake diet guy, his language / demeanor is aggressive but it's just an act he puts on for his youtube channel..

If you're a super sensitive person to language then don't watch the video. The science he brings up is true and verified. He also measures his blood and cortisol levels daily. He's even fasted for one week, and has dry fasted for 72+ hours and he works with Olympians.

He eats 100% carnivore (meat) combined with one meal a day in the morning.



and he has helped people reverse type 2 diabetes with his program



and eating mcdonalds every morning with intermittent fasting kept him healthy


frank k
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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by frank k » Sat May 18, 2019 10:36 am

Idappaccayata wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 3:08 pm
4 or 5 hours is not enough sleep. I would try increasing that to at least 7, then see if it makes a difference. A five hour window is also pretty good as far as the health benefits of intermittent fasting.
Trust me, I've been meditating everyday for decades, I get enough sleep, and have tested it with oversleeping at times so I know exactly what the state of undersleeping, oversleeping, and "just right" feels like and its effect short term, and long term. How much sleep you need depends on what your daily activities are. If I'm on a long meditation retreat where I meditate 6-10 hours a day, the amount of sleep I need daily drops to 3, 2, or one hour a day. You get your batteries charged through avitakka avicara samadhi, and that can happen in sitting posture, standing posture.
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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by frank k » Sat May 18, 2019 10:45 am

DNS wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:01 pm
I agree with Idap you may not be getting enough sleep. You should have plenty of energy on a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet. I eat mostly vegan, which has even less fat and I still feel like I have enough energy, so far.

I've been doing the one meal a day program for over 20 years. I'll eat dinner occasionally for social reasons, but for the most part I have ate just the one meal around lunch time. Sometimes I get hungry in the evening and I'll have a little fruit or carrot juice, which I assume is permissible as even the monks take some juice in the evenings. However, lately in the last couple of years, I don't even take juice in the evenings.

In the last couple of years or so I've been doing my one meal a day at a Las Vegas casino buffet, all 7 days a week. Is that cheating? :tongue:

A few of the casino buffets here are very vegan friendly. I'll eat vegan sushi rolls, tofu-veggie stir fry, scrambled tofu, kimchi, salads, guacamole, salsa, sweet potato and other options too. A couple of casino buffets here even have vegan desserts. :o

See also this big topic on one meal a day:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3045
Thanks for sharing. It's not easy to find people with long term experience, so it's worth careful study and learning some more details about what you're doing and what works, what doesn't work for you.
So eating mostly vegan, what non-vegan stuff are you eating? Eggs, dairy, fish, chicken, beef? Do you feel nutritionally and energetically you need those non-vegan items occasionally to boost energy?

On my 5 hour window plan (compared to eating in one session per day), what's great about it is I feel no need for fruit juice, honey, or other sweet to up my blood sugar and energy level outside that 5 hour window. Whereas on one session a day, I feel a need to drink something for sugar and warm the body.
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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by DooDoot » Sat May 18, 2019 12:17 pm

frank k wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:52 pm
Anyone have any long term success stories to share on eating once a day?
I ate one meal for a fairly long period when I lived in a remote monastery; where I walked 90 minutes each morning to get food. Generally, I guess i ate at least 4 cups of brown rice in the morning with the same amount of vegetable curry with tofu. Occasionally, a passing monk might give me a small bag of fish curry. Although probably once a month I had a small binge of fried chicken, if I went to town on an errand; which my body felt was nourishing. Since I was meditating most of the time, I never got hungry.
frank k wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:52 pm
I'm interested because the Buddha said eating once a day was the best, and I've not had success doing it long term the times I've tried.
Sure. The Buddha obviously had exceptional samadhi.
frank k wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:52 pm
Eating an octo/lavo vegetarian diet, after about 5 days my energy level just completely crashes (lethargic all day, no energy to meditate or do anything). If I add a lot more butter to that one meal, then I can go about 2 weeks before I get the energy crash. I suspect if I ate an omnivore diet like the Buddha, it would work better than my octo/lavo diet at being stronger and more energetic.
Past two years, I have been eating minimalistic. One measured cup of rice per breakfast; one cup of measured cup for lunch; eggs or tofu with nuts with breakfast; 200 grams of fish with lunch; lots of veggies, particularly carrots, broccoli & cauliflower. Also, some nourishing additions, such as unhulled tahini & hemp seeds. If I ate one meal, I would eat the same quantity. Two measured cups of brown rice is not much. I used to each much more.
frank k wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:52 pm
I sleep about 4-5 hours a night, and take an afternoon nap between 30-90min.
When I had pretty good samadhi and lived in the monastery (before I injured my body), I slept 6 hours per night & might nap some days after lunch (in the tropical weather) for say 1 hour. I think at least 6 hours per night; but up to 7 or 8 if there is no afternoon nap. Personally, I prefer being as natural as possible is best for meditation. Just sleep when you feel like sleeping & wake up when you wake up. This said, I was never an excessive sleeper all of my life and was always an early riser.

Again, when I was in the monastery, i noticed those monks who tried to sleep for 4 hours per night & who I sensed had not developed good samadhi generally had sloth & torpor (nodding) in meditation. While I understand the suttas generally refer to 4 hours sleep, I have never been a believer in this and never regarded my meditation was diminished as a result.
frank k wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:52 pm
do you take a caffeine
Never in my life.
frank k wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:52 pm
how would you compare doing one meal a day, the energy level throughout the day, compared with what I'm doing with 2 meals
It all a matter of having sufficient samadhi so hunger is not felt. If you are using your brain a lot studying or working then you might need more food. Regards :smile:
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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by DNS » Sat May 18, 2019 2:57 pm

frank k wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 10:45 am
So eating mostly vegan, what non-vegan stuff are you eating? Eggs, dairy, fish, chicken, beef? Do you feel nutritionally and energetically you need those non-vegan items occasionally to boost energy?
No meat, no fish; just some small amounts of animal products found in salad dressings (honey, dairy, eggs) and an occasional omelette. Otherwise I eat vegan.

I don't feel like I need those non-vegan (but vegetarian) items for energy, they just happen to be in the dressings. I eat the occasional omelette (veggie, no cheese) since it tastes good and also to make sure I get enough b12 and other nutrients. I am sure I could get those on a 100% vegan diet, but I'll eat the occasional omelette just to make sure.

Miso, kimchi, sauerkraut, seaweed and some other vegan foods have b12 and some other nutrients normally only found in animal products. Or a hard-core vegan could take a supplement, but I'd rather get it naturally from food. Since I eat seaweed (vegan sushi rolls) and kimchi, I probably get enough nutrients, but I'll still eat some eggs once in a while.
On my 5 hour window plan (compared to eating in one session per day), what's great about it is I feel no need for fruit juice, honey, or other sweet to up my blood sugar and energy level outside that 5 hour window. Whereas on one session a day, I feel a need to drink something for sugar and warm the body.
That's still very good and if it works for you, feeling good and energetic, go with that. :thumbsup:

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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by frank k » Mon May 20, 2019 4:24 pm

Thank you DNS, doo doot, for sharing your diet details and all responders for comments and suggestions.
I'll post an ongoing summary and links to some of the interesting responses I've gotten on my blog:

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... cess.html

over the years, I think we can build quite an excellent collection of success stories and different diets so future yogis have some inspiration and concrete ideas to work with.

For example, here is OBO, doing 50 years single session eating daily:
http://buddhadust.net/dhammatalk/dhamma ... O.5.18.19
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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by salayatananirodha » Tue May 21, 2019 2:25 pm

DNS wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:01 pm
I'll eat dinner occasionally for social reasons, but for the most part I have ate just the one meal around lunch time.
don't do it :( they're not worth your time if they encourage you not to be virtuous
Sometimes I get hungry in the evening and I'll have a little fruit or carrot juice, which I assume is permissible as even the monks take some juice in the evenings. However, lately in the last couple of years, I don't even take juice in the evenings.
juice is allowable, as long as it is properly filtered, which 100% fruit juice usually is, not containing pulp and such
i've included a source text for this with screenshots
https://books.google.com/books?id=J9I2A ... ya&f=false
Screen Shot 2019-05-21 at 09.02.57.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-21 at 09.02.47.png
Screen Shot 2019-05-21 at 09.03.36.png
In the last couple of years or so I've been doing my one meal a day at a Las Vegas casino buffet, all 7 days a week. Is that cheating? :tongue:
no, and that sounds nice; i also like buffets
A few of the casino buffets here are very vegan friendly. I'll eat vegan sushi rolls, tofu-veggie stir fry, scrambled tofu, kimchi, salads, guacamole, salsa, sweet potato and other options too. A couple of casino buffets here even have vegan desserts. :o
the vegan/non-vegan issue is unimportant, what matters is the blamelessness of eating a meal or the virtue of taking it at the right time.
the buddha did recommend it for health reasons
http://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pts/mn/mn.070.horn.pts.htm wrote:"I, monks, do not eat a meal at night.

Not eating a meal at night,
I, monks, am aware of good health[1]
and of being without illness
and of buoyancy and strength
and living in comfort.

Come, do you too, monks, not eat a meal at [147] night.

Not eating a meal at night, you too, monks,
will be aware of good health
and of being without illness
and of buoyancy and strength
and living in comfort."
doing one time a day is probably not as important as doing it before solar noon. a monk was allowed to consume his alms in more than one place, which i assume constitutes multiple meals.
arahants only eat once a day, and not just arahants
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/mn81 wrote:Ghaṭīkāra the potter, sire, is a one-meal-man, a Brahma-farer, virtuous, lovely in character.
the only specific food i recall the buddha's recommending is congee, for clearing out the bowels. i believe the mundane details about your diet will work themselves out if you make the commitment to practice virtue
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

lostitude
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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by lostitude » Tue May 21, 2019 5:45 pm

frank k wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:52 pm
Anyone have any long term success stories to share on eating once a day?
I'm interested because the Buddha said eating once a day was the best, and I've not had success doing it long term the times I've tried. Eating an octo/lavo vegetarian diet, after about 5 days my energy level just completely crashes (lethargic all day, no energy to meditate or do anything). If I add a lot more butter to that one meal, then I can go about 2 weeks before I get the energy crash.
Have you continued the same ovolacto vegetarian diet for more than 5 days even after experiencing the energy crash?
I don't know how comparable this is, but I am used to the islamic fast of Ramadan which lasts about 30 days, and during which I would only eat one evening meal and skip the morning meal (because it is to be taken before dawn and I prefered sleeping properly without that interruption). In my experience I felt very light and energetic the first week (which I interpret as running on my reserves so I don't feel too hungry or tired), then hunger and low energy start to manifest during the second week which is always the hardest. Third week gets better, and by week 4, I feel I could go on like this forever.

So I can see 2 possibilities (among many others probably):
1/Maybe you haven't persisted long enough to become really accustomed to it, and maybe your energy levels would have gone back up after those 2 weeks (at least that's what would always happen to me).
2/Maybe in the first instance (without the butter) your intake was simply way below your daily needs, and adding the butter just brought you the extra calories your body actually needs. I suppose adding plant-based oils instead (if you'd rather avoid butter) would have the exact same effect.
3/, 4/, 5, etc...

When eating one meal a day, I find the main challenge is to pack enough calories in just one sitting (for me that would be slightly over 2000 calories). Vegetables are great but they are not calorie-dense, so eating too much of those fills you up and prevents you from eating the real sources of energy (i.e. the starch and oil in your rice, and the proteins in your eggs). So it's kind of a balancing act between getting the fiber and micronutrients you need on the one hand, and getting the calories you need on the other hand.

On a sidenote, is there any explanation as to why the Buddha allowed monks to drink sweet drinks? Chemically speaking, plain rice and sugar cane juice are broken down and transformed into the exact same molecule, i.e. glucose, so why this distinction?
I also wonder if monks won't experience hunger pangs all evening after drinking sweet stuff on an empty stomach in the afternoon... and then drink more of it for relief, and end up consuming large (unhealthy?) amounts of sugar.

frank k
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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by frank k » Thu May 23, 2019 3:51 pm

When eating one meal a day, I find the main challenge is to pack enough calories in just one sitting (for me that would be slightly over 2000 calories). Vegetables are great but they are not calorie-dense, so eating too much of those fills you up and prevents you from eating the real sources of energy (i.e. the starch and oil in your rice, and the proteins in your eggs). So it's kind of a balancing act between getting the fiber and micronutrients you need on the one hand, and getting the calories you need on the other hand..
For the past 30 years I've been > 95% of the time lacto ovo vegetarian, and of that 30 years, and my vegetarian diet for much of that time was mostly vegan, until health problems made me realize I needed to eat 2 eggs a day and some yogurt to maintain reasonable health.
The problem with my body type in combination with eating healthy food, is I tend to be cold and skinny.
For reference, if your body fat drops below 4%, you are at risk for many health problems. It's not healthy to look like a comic book superhero.
My body fat is around 8%, and on one meal a day, even packing high calorie quality fat like butter or avocado, even if I eat to the point of being 100% full, my weight and body fat % keeps dropping day by day. I suspect if I ate an omnivore diet, it might work, but on vegan for me, definitely not, lacto-ovo, I haven't been able to make it work yet. With my body fat and weight dropping and energy level crashing after several days, there's no rational reason for me to believe something magical is going to happen after 3 months or 6 months and my body is going to somehow figure it out. Like I said, maybe with some fish, and other meat, maybe it would work. But I chose vegetarianism for ethical reasons, and I really don't want to eat meat unless it's a life or death situation.


On a sidenote, is there any explanation as to why the Buddha allowed monks to drink sweet drinks? Chemically speaking, plain rice and sugar cane juice are broken down and transformed into the exact same molecule, i.e. glucose, so why this distinction?
I also wonder if monks won't experience hunger pangs all evening after drinking sweet stuff on an empty stomach in the afternoon... and then drink more of it for relief, and end up consuming large (unhealthy?) amounts of sugar.
The spirit of the vinaya rule on this, it's really more about allowing certain medicinal foods like honey for those who are sick. But the letter of the vinaya law allows for fruit juice. Like many vinaya rules, they can be abused.
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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by lostitude » Thu May 23, 2019 5:25 pm

frank k wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 3:51 pm

My body fat is around 8%, and on one meal a day, even packing high calorie quality fat like butter or avocado, even if I eat to the point of being 100% full, my weight and body fat % keeps dropping day by day. I suspect if I ate an omnivore diet, it might work, but on vegan for me, definitely not, lacto-ovo, I haven't been able to make it work yet. With my body fat and weight dropping and energy level crashing after several days, there's no rational reason for me to believe something magical is going to happen after 3 months or 6 months and my body is going to somehow figure it out. Like I said, maybe with some fish, and other meat, maybe it would work. But I chose vegetarianism for ethical reasons, and I really don't want to eat meat unless it's a life or death situation.
I think it would be very beneficial if you saw a dietitian. If you want to get to the bottom of this, you need to know how many calories you eat per day and where they come from exactly. As a vegetarian, you also need to ensure that you get all the aminoacids you need by eating a variety of pulses in association with flour-based products. The fact that introducing more eggs into your diet improves your health suggests that you were deficient in certain aminoacids. If you just play it by ear, you will never be able to determine what's wrong with your diet and how to correct it. A dietitian would help you clear those things up in only a few sessions (maybe even just one), which would finally solve at last this 30-year-old conundrum.

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Re: eating in one session a day, success stories?

Post by frank k » Fri May 24, 2019 5:35 pm

lostitude wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:25 pm
I think it would be very beneficial if you saw a dietitian. If you want to get to the bottom of this, you need to know how many calories you eat per day and where they come from exactly. As a vegetarian, you also need to ensure that you get all the aminoacids you need by eating a variety of pulses in association with flour-based products. The fact that introducing more eggs into your diet improves your health suggests that you were deficient in certain aminoacids. If you just play it by ear, you will never be able to determine what's wrong with your diet and how to correct it. A dietitian would help you clear those things up in only a few sessions (maybe even just one), which would finally solve at last this 30-year-old conundrum.
Thanks for the advice, I'll keep it in mind. The problem is finding a qualified dietician. People who don't meditate a lot, haven't personally experimented long term with vegan, vegetarianism, I don't really trust their recommendations for what truly healthy levels of various nutrients are. But as a general advice to flag items that are deficient, and can be done in only one session, definitely I would consider it.
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