General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
The lotus and half lotus are popular meditation postures. But is it okay to lie down (provided one doesn't fall asleep)?
One can meditate for longer hours lying down rather than sitting straight up. While sitting straight up, the focus is more on maintaining the posture, the aches and pains, etc. At least lying down in comfort, the mind is calmer and can focus better on the breath.
Is this recommended in the theravada (or any buddhist) tradition?
The lotus and half lotus are popular meditation postures. But is it okay to lie down (provided one doesn't fall asleep)?
One can meditate for longer hours lying down rather than sitting straight up. While sitting straight up, the focus is more on maintaining the posture, the aches and pains, etc. At least lying down in comfort, the mind is calmer and can focus better on the breath.
Is this recommended in the theravada (or any buddhist) tradition?
Hello friend
Of course you can lie down!
The Buddha meditated while lying on his side sometimes.
My issue is drowsiness; if I tried to lie down and meditate, I would probably just fall asleep.
Other traditions (Zen) emphasize the importance of posture, giving reasons from simple stability and comfort needed for longer sits to enabling right energy flows, conducive to a clearer and more vigorous meditation.
I would say that the former is quite uncontroversial and if one does a retreat with 5-10 hours of daily meditation, having correct posture becomes vital.
Lying down leads to drowsiness, while sitting in a chair lacks the solid stability.
alfa wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:30 am
At least lying down in comfort, the mind is calmer and can focus better on the breath.
If you see by yourself that mind is "calmer and can focus better" do you then need somebody's blessing or permission to practice the way, which you have found to be better?
In the past I was addicted to meditate on a chair with back support. I thought I'm much calmer and focused. But then I went for a retreat to a monastery, where I was given a room with no chair in it. The first thought was "I need to buy a chair", but I decided to give a try to a cross-legged posture (but not lotus). And I found it to be better than a chair. Since then I don't need chair for meditation.
Do what works for you, but be open, one day you might find that sitting works better.
Dan74-MkII wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:47 am
Other traditions (Zen) emphasize the importance of posture, giving reasons from simple stability and comfort needed for longer sits to enabling right energy flows, conducive to a clearer and more vigorous meditation.
I would say that the former is quite uncontroversial and if one does a retreat with 5-10 hours of daily meditation, having correct posture becomes vital.
Lying down leads to drowsiness, while sitting in a chair lacks the solid stability.
I've heard this too, the part about comfort. This has always puzzled me. How can sitting cross-legged be comfortable when all you're thinking of is the pain in your legs or knees? Wouldn't the whole meditation session be wasted if we only focused the pain in our bodies? Or does the pain eventually go away if we continue doing it???
Dan74-MkII wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:47 am
Other traditions (Zen) emphasize the importance of posture, giving reasons from simple stability and comfort needed for longer sits to enabling right energy flows, conducive to a clearer and more vigorous meditation.
I would say that the former is quite uncontroversial and if one does a retreat with 5-10 hours of daily meditation, having correct posture becomes vital.
Lying down leads to drowsiness, while sitting in a chair lacks the solid stability.
I've heard this too, the part about comfort. This has always puzzled me. How can sitting cross-legged be comfortable when all you're thinking of is the pain in your legs or knees? Wouldn't the whole meditation session be wasted if we only focused the pain in our bodies? Or does the pain eventually go away if we continue doing it???
Well, the pain can (should) be a part of practice. Learning to deal with pain is a pretty major skill, I'd say and very important for Dhamma practice - aversion, after all, is a biggie. Sitting with pain and noticing how the mind reacts, one learns a great deal about one's general approach to difficulties in life. Bit by bit we develop equanimity.
And yes, it does get a lot better too, as the legs learn to relax and stretch. I am very stiff and in the beginning 20 minutes were a torture. But after a few years, with the right cushion and posture, I can do retreats with sits up to 1 hour long, perhaps 5-8 sessions. My leg still goes to sleep though, but as I said, I am really very stiff in the legs. Most other people do better.
"Dan74-MkII" wrote:while sitting in a chair lacks the solid stability.
I disagree. I sit in a straight -backed chair because of a problem from a knee injury years ago. My teacher(s) suggested I do that - and to keep my spine as straight as possible.
I also sit on a garden chair outdoors, weather permitting, because I very much prefer to meditate in the open air.
(Standing and walking meditation are also options for outdoors.)
"Dan74-MkII" wrote:while sitting in a chair lacks the solid stability.
I disagree. I sit in a straight -backed chair because of a problem from a knee injury years ago. My teacher(s) suggested I do that - and to keep my spine as straight as possible.
I also sit on a garden chair outdoors, weather permitting, because I very much prefer to meditate in the open air.
(Standing and walking meditation are also options for outdoors.)
Well, as you say, "because of a problem from a knee injury". So it's not ideal, but in case of an injury, we do what we can. I don't know how much difference in practice this makes, of course there are many other factors and perfect posture does not guarantee fruitful practice. But I would say that for those who don't have injuries, lotus, half-lotus or at least Burmese or seiza are better (I confess to sitting in Burmese, again, not ideal, but reasonably steady).
Dan74-MkII wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:47 am
Other traditions (Zen) emphasize the importance of posture, giving reasons from simple stability and comfort needed for longer sits to enabling right energy flows, conducive to a clearer and more vigorous meditation.
Yes, I've noticed that too, especially in some Chan traditions. This tradition requires it:
Venerable Master: Novel ways to meditate were created for those who cannot sit in the full lotus position. The fact is that we must learn to sit in full lotus to meditate. It is impossible to say that one has attained the Way without having sat in full lotus. http://www.cttbusa.org/chan/chan6.asp
It is true that one can meditate in any position, but some postures are better for keeping awareness, mindfulness without getting drowsy. In the Satipatthana Sutta it specifically mentions "sitting cross legged" although I think any sitting position would be fine. Lotus is the most balanced, but many people are unable to sit in that position.
I also like the sleeping posture for my meditation but the drawback is I go to sleep.
I still believe the cross leg position is what we should aim at eventually.
I trying to sit cross leg for about five years but I still have bad back pain so I can't sit for more than 15 minutes but it keeps on improving.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
I would say sitting cross legged or kneeling is optimal, and should be attempted unless conditions such as arthritis prevent it. If you can't do this, then sit in a seat. If you literally have no other option then lying down should be a last resort.
The problem with lying down is that this is associated with sleep and will more than likely put you in that frame of mind rather than the frame of mind for meditation. If you are seated and you start to fall asleep your head will droop and you will wake up, you will become aware that drowsiness is an issue and you can do something about it. If you are laying down the chances are you will just fall asleep and end up napping instead of meditating.
As for pain and discomfort, as mentioned by another poster; these can be good things to practise with. Pain is unavoidable, suffering is optional. You can develop a lot of good skills from learning to cope with pain. If you can deal with it in meditation, you will be better equipped for when your body starts to get aches and pains all the time. If the pain and discomfort gets unbearable, I'd say getting up to do walking meditation would be better than lying down.
Of course you can meditate lying down, as mentioned before the Buddha himself did it. But he was awakened, and was thus already very equipped to deal with drowsiness. I would say for most people it would be sub-optimal to always practise laying down, unless you are very good at identifying dullness and drowsiness and dealing with it before it becomes full on sleep.
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
I find its best to sit without back support or on the floor. I use this as a tool to "wake" me up when I fall asleep, the posture becomes unstable and would fall off balance. The body sends a reminder that I am off drifting again.. lying down in my personal opinion is for advance meditator who is able to beat "sleep" while being very still... Its still a good practice as the sleep will be very deep. Wake up fresh lol.
I find getting a higher cushion (7-8Inch) for half-lotus or Burmese style works. Below is what I recommend. This prevents leg falling asleep and its memory foam so you can "jhana" to your heart delights.
It's not cheap.. but all proceeds go to help hundreds of people at the monastry. They claim to last a life time (or two).
There is no single opinion on this matter, everything is individual. For example, if I have a congenital problem or an acquired trauma, why should I endure severe pains that will make me worse in the end?
Consult with your trainer, and even better with your doctor
Wouldn't the whole meditation session be wasted if we only focused the pain in our bodies? Or does the pain eventually go away if we continue doing it???
