ye that's what i thought. would appreciate if you explain how this occurs in as much detail as possible. Is it a conscious decision to drop noting, does it occur by itself, are you able to engage in verbalization if you wanted to post-cessation, do you think a meditator should stop noting at a certain point ie access concentration, does the noting become different post cessation of verbalization if so how, any other details toobudo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:07 pmMakes sense to me and aligns with my experience as wellrightviewftw wrote: ↑Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:40 pmI wonder if mental noting is related to speech that follows directed thought and evaluation.also the relationship to[thanissaro:] Having first directed one's thoughts and made an evaluation, one then breaks out into speech. That's why directed thought & evaluation are verbal fabrications.[SN41.6] When one has attained the first jhāna, speech has ceased [SN36.11].
vitakka - trans; thinking
vicara - trans; more thinking, examining, sustained thinking, evaluation
Given that these are factors of the first jhana;
It seems like the vittaka and vicara remain but the verbalization ceases, because the SN 41.6 has it;So it does seem like one can have thinking without verbalization, i can't comprehend it tho. Also it fits with the narrative that the verbalization is antithetical to the first jhana.Pubbe kho, gahapati, vitakketvā vicāretvā pacchā vācaṃ bhindati, tasmā vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro.
sujato; First you place the mind and keep it connected, then you break into speech. That’s why placing the mind and keeping it connected are verbal processes.
i wonder how you understand this
also if you can instruct me on how to see for myself id try it out