Who are the contemporary meditation monks?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
SarathW
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Re: Who are the contemporary meditation monks?

Post by SarathW » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:39 pm

Ekagrata is a universal mental faculty.
We all have Ekagrata.
So what is meant by Ekagata in Jhana?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Who are the contemporary meditation monks?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:41 pm

SarathW wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:39 pm
Ekagrata is a universal mental faculty. We all have Ekagrata.
I doubt this.
SarathW wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:39 pm
So what is meant by Ekagata in Jhana?
It means a part of the mind that forms the "base" of the mind does not move.
Never ordained... not an anonymous-online-bhikkhu or ex-bhikkhu...

SarathW
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Re: Who are the contemporary meditation monks?

Post by SarathW » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:47 pm

I doubt this
Do you reject Abhidhamma?

http://103.242.110.22/theravadins/Engli ... actice.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Who are the contemporary meditation monks?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:52 pm

SarathW wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:47 pm
I doubt this
Do you reject Abhidhamma?

http://103.242.110.22/theravadins/Engli ... actice.pdf
The Buddha did not speak Abhidhamma. Abhidhamma often contradicts sutta. :focus:
Never ordained... not an anonymous-online-bhikkhu or ex-bhikkhu...

SarathW
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Re: Who are the contemporary meditation monks?

Post by SarathW » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:59 pm

Samadhi or Concentration (Ekagata) - though often very weak - is one of the 7 mental concomitants inseparably associated with all consciousness.

https://www.budsas.org/ebud/bud-dict/dic3_s.htm
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Who are the contemporary meditation monks?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:01 pm

SarathW wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:59 pm
Samadhi or Concentration (Ekagata) - though often very weak -
Not according to the suttas. :focus:
Unflagging persistence was aroused in me, and unmuddled mindfulness established. My body was calm & unaroused, my mind (cittaṃ) concentrated (samāhitaṃ) & single (ekaggaṃ). Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, I entered & remained in the first jhana...

MN 19
Never ordained... not an anonymous-online-bhikkhu or ex-bhikkhu...

ToVincent
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Re: Who are the contemporary meditation monks?

Post by ToVincent » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:18 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:01 pm
SarathW wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:59 pm
Samadhi or Concentration (Ekagata) - though often very weak -
Not according to the suttas. :focus:
Unflagging persistence was aroused in me, and unmuddled mindfulness established. My body was calm & unaroused, my mind (cittaṃ) concentrated (samāhitaṃ) & single (ekaggaṃ). Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, I entered & remained in the first jhana...

MN 19
I agree to go back to topic, after this remark:

The Agama parallel to MN 19 (MA 102) is not so manifest.
It puts samadhi & ekaggata as the entrance to second jhana. While in the Pali version, it is the first jhana.
So one might reconsider this passage about the jhanas altogether; for it does not fit in the rest of the Nikayas.

It is an important nuance. Because the maras will be delighted to have you believe that, with good thoughts only, you could get into samadhi (establishment in citta). But that is not the case.

Not having thoughts of vindictiveness (byāpāda) and harmfulness (hiṃsā) [for the maras, for instance,] is not enough to be established in the citta, and liberate that citta later on.

If one would just stop at having good thoughts, one would be a mere slave of mara, this way.
One needs instead a bit more than that as shown here: https://justpaste.it/69jp3

In other words, one also needs to have the will to escape the kāma's world, aka mara's world. Kāma meaning here, an object of desire, of pleasure (RV. VS. TS. AV. ŚBr. MBh.).

One might get to the first jhana by getting rid of bad thoughts. But definitely not to samadhi and ekkagata, directly like that.
.
.
Last edited by ToVincent on Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
.
In this world with its ..., māras, ... in this population with its ascetics.... (AN 5.30).
------
We are all possessed - more or less.
------
And what, bhikkhu, is inward rottenness? Here someone is immoral, one of evil character, of impure and suspect behaviour, secretive in his acts, no ascetic though claiming to be one, not a celibate though claiming to be one, inwardly rotten, corrupt, depraved. This is called inward rottenness.”
SN 35.241
------
https://justpaste.it/j5o4

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retrofuturist
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Re: Who are the contemporary meditation monks?

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:18 pm

Greetings,
DooDoot wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:01 pm
:focus:
Agreed. Sarath, if you wish to continue with this line of inquiry, it would be better to start a new thread focused specifically on your line of inquiry, than to bend this topic in that direction.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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