Anapanasati - Step 7 and 8

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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DooDoot
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Re: Anapanasati - Step 7 and 8

Post by DooDoot » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:07 am

ToVincent wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:05 pm
And what about "sati" in the case of Ānāpānasati?

Is it "sati" coming from Vedic smṛti, meaning recollection - or is it coming from सति sati = साति sāti = gaining , obtaining , acquisition (RV.)

If Samādhi, as seen before =
Temporary placing of (establishing) oneself in citta, before total liberation of the latter. The transcendence from dwelling in mano+citta, towards dwelling purely in citta, AND the process of liberating it thoroughly (second to fourth jhanas).

Then Ānāpānasatisamādhi would just mean:
"Obtaining the establishment in Citta, through breathing" .
I have read sati recollects Right View (per MN 117) but not read sati recollects Samma Samadhi (as appearing to be inferred above). I suggest "sati" in the case of Ānāpānasati is described as follows, namely, recollecting to abandon craving:
the monk on that occasion remains... mindful putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

There is the case where a monk develops mindfulness as a factor for awakening dependent on seclusion, dependent on dispassion, dependent on cessation, resulting in relinquishment.

MN 118
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

ToVincent
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Re: Anapanasati - Step 7 and 8

Post by ToVincent » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:58 pm

These are the first eight steps of Anapanasati, corresponding to the first jhana.
https://justpaste.it/1js3l

This is a correct translation.

As we have seen before, "sati" has two meanings:

1- from the Vedic smṛti, meaning "thinking upon" (~mindful). It can be being mindful of (thinking upon) the breath. Or being mindful of not letting the external akusala get in, etc.

2- from सति sati = साति sāti = gaining , obtaining , acquisition (RV.)

Ānāpānasati means therefore "the acquisition (of citta), through (mindful) breathing".
It takes both meanings (of sati), throughout the process of liberation.

Please, notice the relationship between sati (thinking upon) in Ānāpānasati, and Vitakka-Vicāra in the first jhana.
Vitakka is about thinking about the breath, and only the breath - (focusing on thinking only about it). (first and second step).
Vicāra is about knowing the particulars of both in & out breathes. (third step).

-----

What is usually called "wisdom" (pañña) is "discerment".
Discernment between in & out breath - discernment between pīti & sukha - discernment between mano & citta(ssa).
.
.
Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
.
In this world with its ..., māras, ... in this population with its ascetics.... (AN 5.30).
------
We are all possessed - more or less.
------
And what, bhikkhu, is inward rottenness? Here someone is immoral, one of evil character, of impure and suspect behaviour, secretive in his acts, no ascetic though claiming to be one, not a celibate though claiming to be one, inwardly rotten, corrupt, depraved. This is called inward rottenness.”
SN 35.241
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https://justpaste.it/j5o4

ToVincent
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Re: Anapanasati - Step 7 and 8

Post by ToVincent » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:26 am

Maybe some of you will be interested to have this study on parallels in SN 54.

https://justpaste.it/3ohho
.
.
Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
.
In this world with its ..., māras, ... in this population with its ascetics.... (AN 5.30).
------
We are all possessed - more or less.
------
And what, bhikkhu, is inward rottenness? Here someone is immoral, one of evil character, of impure and suspect behaviour, secretive in his acts, no ascetic though claiming to be one, not a celibate though claiming to be one, inwardly rotten, corrupt, depraved. This is called inward rottenness.”
SN 35.241
------
https://justpaste.it/j5o4

evansdu010
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: Anapanasati - Step 7 and 8

Post by evansdu010 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:07 pm

Zom wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:20 pm
I don't think these are "steps". All 4 tetrads are actually 4 Carton déménagement pour bouteille satipatthanas, and 4 satipatthanas are not "steps". They are just 4 possible areas to direct your attention.
Not only do you have an arahant to guide you but you have the Buddha the enlightened one within as a guide/teacher.
We do however have to pay attention to the teachings.
Thanks!

form
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Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: Anapanasati - Step 7 and 8

Post by form » Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:02 pm

Unless your breath has naturally reaches a stage that is very slow, it is not even possible to execute these steps. If you have successfully done these steps and looked back at these descriptions u will know that are exactly those described. To me there is no point looking at theories or listen to another (they may be correct but their descriptions may not be tailored for your mind). For these are hard to describe phenomenon that cannot be comprehended merely therotically. With that, i would say try regular sessions daily, when u r there, examine for yourself.

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