There is no such thing as insight practice. [Was:insight requires access concentration?]

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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DooDoot
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Re: There is no such thing as insight practice. [Was:insight requires access concentration?]

Post by DooDoot » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:02 am

SarathW wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:55 am
However Buddha allowed practicing Jhana to monks.
:rolleye:
"Practising" jhana is different to "enjoying" jhana. :roll:
I thought: 'So why am I afraid of that pleasure that has nothing to do with sensuality, nothing to do with unskillful mental qualities?'

MN 36
Enjoyment of jhana leads to rebirth in hell.
There is the case where an individual, withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He savors that, longs for that, finds satisfaction through that. Staying there — fixed on that, dwelling there often, not falling away from that — then when he dies he reappears in conjunction with the devas of Brahma's retinue. The devas of Brahma's retinue, monks, have a life-span of an eon. A run-of-the-mill person having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, goes to hell :shock: , to the animal womb, to the state of the hungry shades. But a disciple of the Blessed One, having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, is unbound right in that state of being. This, monks, is the difference, this the distinction, this the distinguishing factor, between an educated disciple of the noble ones and an uneducated run-of-the-mill person, when there is a destination, a reappearing.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

SarathW
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Re: There is no such thing as insight practice. [Was:insight requires access concentration?]

Post by SarathW » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:06 am

Enjoyment of jhana leads to rebirth in hell.
:rofl:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mikenz66
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Re: There is no such thing as insight practice. [Was:insight requires access concentration?]

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:47 am

budo wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:05 pm
I highly recommend you guys read the book by Kheminda Thera "Way of Buddhist meditation", he and Soma Thera were one of the original translators of the Vimuttimagga.

He explains why everyone who enters the noble path, whether faith enterer or dhamma enterer from stream entry to arahant, all require at least first jhana for the mind moment it happens in.

The book is free online https://archive.org/details/WayOfBuddhi ... mindaThera

Also concentration is something you do: controlling your awareness and letting go of anything that is not the primary object. This is an action. There is no action in which you instantly call up insight. You can contemplate, that is an action,which may increase the likelihood of an effect called insight to happen.

Or you can do another action which is moving your awareness to whatever enters your senses the strongest and noting it, this isn't what the Buddha taught though.
Thanks for posting that. The articles he mentions in the preface are his arguments with the Mahasi approach, which went back and forth in the journal "World Buddhism" for several years. Here are links to a collection of those articles:
viewtopic.php?t=15323&start=20#p220875
https://static.sirimangalo.org/mahasi/S ... eplies.htm

:heart:
Mike

LuisR
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Re: There is no such thing as insight practice. [Was:insight requires access concentration?]

Post by LuisR » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:12 pm

I didn't want to open another thread so I will ask in here. Is samadhi supposed to lead to Jhana? If so why doesn't the Goenka branch of vipassana talk about it? During the the Goenka retreat you do three and a half days of pure anapana meditation. After getting concentrated wouldn't this lead to Jhana? Or does Jhana really take years to get there?

I went to a retreat last year at a local monastery and i reached a pretty good level of concentration. At one point I felt like there was a light where my nose was and it felt a pleasant feeling. It didn't last long though and I never that feeling again since then. When I went to the goenka retereat, I felt very very concentrated focusing my attention at the tip of the nose, how ever I did not feel as relaxed afterwards as I did at the previous retreat at my local monastery. Maybe I wasn't relaxed enough during the meditation? The experiences with the breath were very different. What is the best way to get to Jhana.

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