Thoughts and Suffering

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
User avatar
one_awakening
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:04 am

Thoughts and Suffering

Post by one_awakening » Sat May 19, 2018 12:06 pm

In my own practice, I have found that thoughts seem to contribute the most to suffering than any of the other five sense objects. Would this be a fair statement?
“You only lose what you cling to”

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by cappuccino » Sat May 19, 2018 5:16 pm

On the spiritual path…

A long time is spent worrying about thinking.

At some point you lose interest and it no longer matters!

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by Saengnapha » Sun May 20, 2018 4:35 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 5:16 pm
On the spiritual path…

A long time is spent worrying about thinking.

At some point you lose interest and it no longer matters!
Some people would call that complacency. Attending to thinking is an important action that can lead to real insight. Without insight into our thinking, we are lost in its content.

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 1773
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by rightviewftw » Sun May 20, 2018 4:53 am

not much spells out insanity as clearly as obsessive thinking
craving is verbalized internally and that would constitute thinking
it is very stressful imo but so are these aggregates in general, a pile of stress

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2821
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by robertk » Sun May 20, 2018 7:33 am

one_awakening wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 12:06 pm
In my own practice, I have found that thoughts seem to contribute the most to suffering than any of the other five sense objects. Would this be a fair statement?
Basically yes - apart from moments of intense pain at the body door. The other sense doors have only neutral feeling.

Consider someone who lost a spouse or child : only when they think about the loss is there painful mental feeling. And the same for any other problem.

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by cappuccino » Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 4:35 am
cappuccino wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 5:16 pm
A long time is spent worrying about thinking.

At some point you lose interest and it no longer matters!
Some people would call that complacency.
Some teachers advise to ignore thinking, in order to transcend it.

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by Saengnapha » Sun May 20, 2018 2:07 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 4:35 am
cappuccino wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 5:16 pm
A long time is spent worrying about thinking.

At some point you lose interest and it no longer matters!
Some people would call that complacency.
Some teachers advise to ignore thinking, in order to transcend it.
But that doesn't quite do it, does it?

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by cappuccino » Sun May 20, 2018 2:17 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 2:07 pm
cappuccino wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 pm
Some teachers advise to ignore thinking, in order to transcend it.
But that doesn't quite do it, does it?
You don't stop thinking, you stop worrying about it.
Last edited by cappuccino on Sun May 20, 2018 2:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by Saengnapha » Sun May 20, 2018 2:19 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 2:17 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 2:07 pm
cappuccino wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 pm
Some teachers advise to ignore thinking, in order to transcend it.
But that doesn't quite do it, does it?
You don't stop thinking, you stop worrying about it.

At that point it doesn't matter.
Not quite. It goes on in the background. There is much more to this than what you are implying.

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by cappuccino » Sun May 20, 2018 2:21 pm

very much in the background, rather than being a parade

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by Saengnapha » Sun May 20, 2018 2:49 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 2:21 pm
very much in the background, rather than being a parade
This is where conceit comes in. We see a bit of a change and we think we are doing something right. In fact, nothing has touched the root of suffering.

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by cappuccino » Sun May 20, 2018 2:52 pm

you would be doing something right… if you can ignore thinking

Digity
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:13 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by Digity » Sun May 20, 2018 3:48 pm

What I find is that those thoughts that cause suffering tend to have an underlying negative emotion attached to them. I've had to dig a little deep to see what's causing me to think negatively and bring those underlying emotions to the surface. Once you expose them they lose a lot of power and then the negative thoughts associated with them also tend to lose power. However, this can be a slow process. Mindfulness plays a significant role here, because every time we're mindful we can potentially expose ourselves to those underlying negative emotions. After doing this repeatedly and going through enough problems and suffering in life due to these negative emotions we might one day see the whole thing clearly and decide to change that underlying negativity.

What also helps in doing this is having people around you that can look at you objectively and share their thoughts and insights on your own behaviour. Typically, I think individuals are poor at looking at themselves objectively. So, it helps to have some outside perspective from someone who has no "skin in the game", so to speak. But yes, I do think mind/thinking has the highest potential for suffering, but it's also the human mind that has the capacity to achieve liberation from suffering, so it goes both ways.

SarathW
Posts: 9770
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by SarathW » Sun May 20, 2018 9:41 pm

I have found that thoughts seem to contribute the most to suffering
Vitakka and Vicara are eliminated in the second Jhana.
Sense objects are itself is not bad. Proliferation on sense object is the problem.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Thoughts and Suffering

Post by Saengnapha » Mon May 21, 2018 3:47 am

SarathW wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 9:41 pm
Vitakka and Vicara are eliminated in the second Jhana.
Only temporarily.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests