how do you do mettā

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Dhammarakkhito
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how do you do mettā

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:42 am

the suttas say imbue the world successively in four quarters with loving kindness. the self mettā in particular is an addition, and if it were critical to the practice then it would have been said. i am at the point where i can't continue without developing my mettā. i mean, my practice would be just hollow. you are supposed to tell people 'may you be well, may you be happy,' but to me that comes off as a lie because that's not how i feel. aside, it's more like something you should cultivate in your mind without a brazen display. i don't maintain my anger a long time, but it comes up again and again and it's like having shit all over me. i want to clean the shit off me, help
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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:19 am

I rarely do, only to counter anger in times of conflict really.
How i do it is by wishing highest possible happiness for my self and others who are suffering on account of delusion
Usually thinking about this and the implications of this is, usuallythat is enough for me.
I never used Metta to bring about Jhana so i dont know how to really train that feel
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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by seeker242 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:40 pm

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:42 am
the suttas say imbue the world successively in four quarters with loving kindness. the self mettā in particular is an addition
"May all beings be happy", by default, includes oneself since oneself is part of "all".

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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:41 pm

Btw i think anger can be countered by other themes, not only Metta.
In example contemplation of Death

Dhp Chp 1; Verse 6. Recollection of Death Brings Peace

Still others do not understand
that we must perish in this world,
those who understand this,
there quarrels are allayed.
recollection of the Triple Gem,
recollecting one's own good deeds
recollecting virtues leading to heavenly realms

these are all wholesome themes just will be harder to establish than Metta as i understand it.

Sati and Investigation of states is most important because if Sati is established in that moment mind is free from anger on account of being a wholesome mindstate due to non-objectification in regards to Sense-Data and it allows for further investigation and countering.
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How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Complete Manual of Insight by Mahasi Sayadaw
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/
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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by cappuccino » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:36 am

The meditator is instructed to radiate out (to all beings in all directions) the states of:

loving-kindness or benevolence
compassion
empathetic joy
equanimity
neither eternal identity, nor annihilation

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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:53 am

what is the difference between benevolence and compassion
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by damaci » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:57 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:42 am
the suttas say imbue the world successively in four quarters with loving kindness. the self mettā in particular is an addition, and if it were critical to the practice then it would have been said. i am at the point where i can't continue without developing my mettā. i mean, my practice would be just hollow. you are supposed to tell people 'may you be well, may you be happy,' but to me that comes off as a lie because that's not how i feel. aside, it's more like something you should cultivate in your mind without a brazen display. i don't maintain my anger a long time, but it comes up again and again and it's like having shit all over me. i want to clean the shit off me, help
Hi. You are right that the metta instructions in the sutta are brief and the instructions just tell the practitioner to fill the four quarters with loving-kindness. You can use this method to reach the first jhana. However, the brief instructions assume that you already know how to light the fire of loving-kindness and maintain it at a steady rhythm, so to speak. If you just try it, you will see that it is extremely difficult to do so. You may sit there for hours thinking that you are radiating loving-kindness to four corners, but you are just imagining things and you will not enter the jhana. Why not? Because the fire of loving-kindness is not burning strong enough and steadily enough (I am using metaphorical language here, but it is also a fact that as the loving-kindness becomes stronger (that is a "real" feeling instead of just an idea), you will feel incredible warmth in your body, especially in the chest and heart areas, close to a warming sensation of a nice fire.)

I strongly suspect (but I cannot prove this) that by the time that Visuddhimagha was written, people already had trouble entering into jhana by using the brief metta instructions alone. So, the author of Visuddhimagga devised this step-by-step method of bringing about the desired result (that is entering the jhana by way of metta).

Visuddhimagga starts with metta towards the self because it is slightly easier to generate than generating metta towards a loved-one, much easier than generating metta towards a neutral person and a great deal much easier than generating metta towards an enemy). That is the basic reason behind the step-by-step instructions.

However, things get tricky here especially for the modern western practitioners. From my encounters with my western friends, I have often seen that they have great trouble generating metta towards themselves (which is ironic, since it is the easiest in the Visuddhimagga's scheme). I think the most important reason for that is the legacy of Christianity and the perverse feeling of guilt it instills into human beings. This is even true for westerners who are not overtly Christians, since this idea of guilt is almost a cultural phenomenon in the west, and they have grown in that culture of guilt. In any case, you need to leave such useless baggage aside and generate good-will and kindness towards yourself first.

Remember, metta is a feeling meditation. So, it is not about "thinking" about loving-kindness towards yourself. It is about actually "feeling" it. You need to cultivate this feeling for some time (I would say at least 15 minutes, or more) in the first stage up until it becomes a real sensation (a very strong feeling) radiating and creating almost tangible warmth and heat in your body. Then you envisage a loved-one (or a friend, I found that both the four-way schema and five-way schema works perfectly fine) and do it all over again. When you change the object of meditation from yourself to the loved-one, you may see that the strength of the metta feeling may diminish a bit. That is normal. You need to cultivate it again. It is like tending to a weakening fire. Just put more fuel into it. The fuel is the feeling of goodwill and kindness. Take as much time as you need. Enjoy the process. As you create real metta, you will see that you will feel more and more relaxed and you will feel happier while doing it. It is extremely enjoyable.

After the fire of metta towards the loved-one begins to burn as strong as towards the self, you may change the object towards a neutral person. Do not rush. You will see that generating real and strong feeling of metta towards a neutral person is considerably more difficult than generating it towards a loved-one. So, the fire of metta may get weaker. No problem. It is normal. You need to make sure that you do not get upset or angry about this weakening. Even a tiny bit of anger or ill-will will make it impossible (absolutely impossible) to progress further. Just cultivate the feeling (remember it is a feeling, you need to absolutely feel it) until the fire burns as strongly as towards your loved one, and yourself.

There should be no separation in degree in your mind between the goodwill towards the neutral person you feel and the earlier feeling towards the loved-one. They should be absolutely equal. Once you get to this stage. You may go and envisage an enemy (I mean it literally, you need to see this person clearly in your mind's eye, so to speak). Start generating metta towards him/her (use a person in the same gender as yourself). This might be a bit difficult at first, but since you have cultivated the fire of metta for so long, it will not go away. If you see that you cannot generate any metta towards the enemy, it shows that you have not cultivated the fire of metta enough. You need to go back to the earlier stages and cultivate it more.

When the metta you generate towards the enemy becomes as strong as the metta you generated towards yourself, loved-one and neutral person, you may begin to radiate it through the six directions. Since it is so strong now, it will continue to burn and radiate without diminishing in power at all at this stage. You are like a metta generating machine, so to speak. What I do at this stage is to imagine the feeling of metta I generate as waves after waves slowly covering my house, then my street,then my city, then the country I am living in, then the entire world. This is a slow process, do not rush it. Finally radiate it literally towards all corners of space and universe. Cover every living and conscious being with your love and goodwill. Not only people, but also animals, divine beings etc. Just everything. Dwell continuously on this great feeling of metta without wavering. At some stage, you will see that you are not generating metta anymore, you have, how to say it, become metta. Here if you enter the first jhana, very good. If not, very good. Do not ever get frustrated if seemingly nothing happens at this stage despite your best efforts because that would create subtle ill-will and anger. Metta will protect you (and, as weird as this sounds, people will begin to love you), even if you do not enter the jhana.

Note: Metta meditation will not work if you already have very strong anger or ill-will to start with. Metta, if done correctly, will work as an antidote for the future rising of anger and ill-will. However, in my personal experience, if you already have ill-will and strong anger towards someone or something to start with, you need to first neutralize these feelings temporarily by a brief meditation on equanimity, and then start your metta meditation with a clear mind.

Good luck.

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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by Crazy cloud » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:44 am

I skipped the word "loving" and replaced it with the much more suitable word "friendliness".

During the day of ordinary present moment awareness there will pop up occasions where some friendliness is needed.
Then I use a few tools (poems, memories, music, sutta readings, mantras, memorized chantings, and observations in the present moment) to cultivate a workable and strong feeling, usually felt like a pleasant glow round the heart area. Then I rest in that feeling.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by Saengnapha » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:50 am

Here is Bhante Punnaji's video and instructions on Metta Bhavana.

Here are the accompanying pdf instructions.

My experience with it is very similar to what Damaci said. You can see its progression through the jhanas as Bhante P explains it.

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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:27 am

alright, i read all of the replies going to look at the video. i dont know if i have enemies, i dont know that i feel that way, i'm more neutral, kind of annoyed, dont like where i am as a householder, wonder if there is something wholesome to that. i know that the thoughts that i have are wrong toward other people, i get tense trying to avoid these thoughts and they insistently then come in. i've made progress i just dont think i have ever stopped and said hey let me fix my disgruntled occasionally hostile nature. i think i got into jhana but it wasnt by metta, maybe i could make great progress if i applied myself. i have looked at that method before, is it from bhante v, i couldnt think of anyone i really felt warm to, a lot of it for me is trying not to get angry to keep calm even under duress. if i could get away from people i might love them more
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by rightviewftw » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:25 pm

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
Dylan posted it in the chat and i think it was quite good.
How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Complete Manual of Insight by Mahasi Sayadaw
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/
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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by santa100 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:51 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:what is the difference between benevolence and compassion
Vism IX.105-109 provided details about the two. A good metaphor that helps distinguish the two: mettā is like a mother's wish for her strong healthy child to grow up; and karuṇā is like a mother's wish for her weak sick child to get well. The wiki page says: "The Pali commentaries distinguish between karuṇā and mettā in the following complementary manner: Karuna is the desire to remove harm and suffering (ahita-dukkha-apanaya-kāmatā) from others; while mettā is the desire to bring about the well-being and happiness (hita-sukha-upanaya-kāmatā) of others."

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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by Nwad » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:12 am

damaci wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:57 am
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:42 am
the suttas say imbue the world successively in four quarters with loving kindness. the self mettā in particular is an addition, and if it were critical to the practice then it would have been said. i am at the point where i can't continue without developing my mettā. i mean, my practice would be just hollow. you are supposed to tell people 'may you be well, may you be happy,' but to me that comes off as a lie because that's not how i feel. aside, it's more like something you should cultivate in your mind without a brazen display. i don't maintain my anger a long time, but it comes up again and again and it's like having shit all over me. i want to clean the shit off me, help
Hi. You are right that the metta instructions in the sutta are brief and the instructions just tell the practitioner to fill the four quarters with loving-kindness. You can use this method to reach the first jhana. However, the brief instructions assume that you already know how to light the fire of loving-kindness and maintain it at a steady rhythm, so to speak. If you just try it, you will see that it is extremely difficult to do so. You may sit there for hours thinking that you are radiating loving-kindness to four corners, but you are just imagining things and you will not enter the jhana. Why not? Because the fire of loving-kindness is not burning strong enough and steadily enough (I am using metaphorical language here, but it is also a fact that as the loving-kindness becomes stronger (that is a "real" feeling instead of just an idea), you will feel incredible warmth in your body, especially in the chest and heart areas, close to a warming sensation of a nice fire.)

I strongly suspect (but I cannot prove this) that by the time that Visuddhimagha was written, people already had trouble entering into jhana by using the brief metta instructions alone. So, the author of Visuddhimagga devised this step-by-step method of bringing about the desired result (that is entering the jhana by way of metta).

Visuddhimagga starts with metta towards the self because it is slightly easier to generate than generating metta towards a loved-one, much easier than generating metta towards a neutral person and a great deal much easier than generating metta towards an enemy). That is the basic reason behind the step-by-step instructions.

However, things get tricky here especially for the modern western practitioners. From my encounters with my western friends, I have often seen that they have great trouble generating metta towards themselves (which is ironic, since it is the easiest in the Visuddhimagga's scheme). I think the most important reason for that is the legacy of Christianity and the perverse feeling of guilt it instills into human beings. This is even true for westerners who are not overtly Christians, since this idea of guilt is almost a cultural phenomenon in the west, and they have grown in that culture of guilt. In any case, you need to leave such useless baggage aside and generate good-will and kindness towards yourself first.

Remember, metta is a feeling meditation. So, it is not about "thinking" about loving-kindness towards yourself. It is about actually "feeling" it. You need to cultivate this feeling for some time (I would say at least 15 minutes, or more) in the first stage up until it becomes a real sensation (a very strong feeling) radiating and creating almost tangible warmth and heat in your body. Then you envisage a loved-one (or a friend, I found that both the four-way schema and five-way schema works perfectly fine) and do it all over again. When you change the object of meditation from yourself to the loved-one, you may see that the strength of the metta feeling may diminish a bit. That is normal. You need to cultivate it again. It is like tending to a weakening fire. Just put more fuel into it. The fuel is the feeling of goodwill and kindness. Take as much time as you need. Enjoy the process. As you create real metta, you will see that you will feel more and more relaxed and you will feel happier while doing it. It is extremely enjoyable.

After the fire of metta towards the loved-one begins to burn as strong as towards the self, you may change the object towards a neutral person. Do not rush. You will see that generating real and strong feeling of metta towards a neutral person is considerably more difficult than generating it towards a loved-one. So, the fire of metta may get weaker. No problem. It is normal. You need to make sure that you do not get upset or angry about this weakening. Even a tiny bit of anger or ill-will will make it impossible (absolutely impossible) to progress further. Just cultivate the feeling (remember it is a feeling, you need to absolutely feel it) until the fire burns as strongly as towards your loved one, and yourself.

There should be no separation in degree in your mind between the goodwill towards the neutral person you feel and the earlier feeling towards the loved-one. They should be absolutely equal. Once you get to this stage. You may go and envisage an enemy (I mean it literally, you need to see this person clearly in your mind's eye, so to speak). Start generating metta towards him/her (use a person in the same gender as yourself). This might be a bit difficult at first, but since you have cultivated the fire of metta for so long, it will not go away. If you see that you cannot generate any metta towards the enemy, it shows that you have not cultivated the fire of metta enough. You need to go back to the earlier stages and cultivate it more.

When the metta you generate towards the enemy becomes as strong as the metta you generated towards yourself, loved-one and neutral person, you may begin to radiate it through the six directions. Since it is so strong now, it will continue to burn and radiate without diminishing in power at all at this stage. You are like a metta generating machine, so to speak. What I do at this stage is to imagine the feeling of metta I generate as waves after waves slowly covering my house, then my street,then my city, then the country I am living in, then the entire world. This is a slow process, do not rush it. Finally radiate it literally towards all corners of space and universe. Cover every living and conscious being with your love and goodwill. Not only people, but also animals, divine beings etc. Just everything. Dwell continuously on this great feeling of metta without wavering. At some stage, you will see that you are not generating metta anymore, you have, how to say it, become metta. Here if you enter the first jhana, very good. If not, very good. Do not ever get frustrated if seemingly nothing happens at this stage despite your best efforts because that would create subtle ill-will and anger. Metta will protect you (and, as weird as this sounds, people will begin to love you), even if you do not enter the jhana.

Note: Metta meditation will not work if you already have very strong anger or ill-will to start with. Metta, if done correctly, will work as an antidote for the future rising of anger and ill-will. However, in my personal experience, if you already have ill-will and strong anger towards someone or something to start with, you need to first neutralize these feelings temporarily by a brief meditation on equanimity, and then start your metta meditation with a clear mind.

Good luck.
:goodpost: :anjali:

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rightviewftw
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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:58 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:25 pm
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
Dylan posted it in the chat and i think it was quite good.
I gave it a test before sleep yesterday and in the morning today, it worked both times and it gave rise to strong happy feel, teared up a lot .. I will experiment more with it.
How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Complete Manual of Insight by Mahasi Sayadaw
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/
don't feed the trolls

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Re: how do you do mettā

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:40 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:58 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:25 pm
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
Dylan posted it in the chat and i think it was quite good.
I gave it a test before sleep yesterday and in the morning today, it worked both times and it gave rise to strong happy feel, teared up a lot .. I will experiment more with it.
i'm delighted to hear this :) I hope others here take it as a recommendation & give it a read
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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