Arguing about Mahasi Sayadaw and Goenka Meditation

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SarathW
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Arguing about Mahasi Sayadaw and Goenka Meditation

Post by SarathW » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:11 am

In the attached video this monk Ven. Pemasiri explains how he wasted 20 years by following Mahasi and Goenka method.
He clearly explains the difference between Manasikara, Yonisomanasikara and Satismpagnana.
This video is not the best quality but if you are patient enough you can learn something very profound.

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mikenz66
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Re: Finding Mahasi Sayadaw Meditation difficult

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:23 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:11 am
In the attached video this monk Ven. Pemasiri explains how he wasted 20 years by following Mahasi and Goenka method. ...
That's sad for him, I guess. Clearly different approaches suit different people.

When someone is asking for help with a particular approach, I don't think it is useful to post criticisms from people who do not find that particular approach helpful.

I could easily find someone critical of any approach, but what would that prove? :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

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SarathW
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Re: Finding Mahasi Sayadaw Meditation difficult

Post by SarathW » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:30 am

That's sad for him, I guess. Clearly different approaches suit different people.
If you listen to this you will learn the pitfall of the wrong method of practicing Sati.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mikenz66
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Re: Finding Mahasi Sayadaw Meditation difficult

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:55 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:30 am
That's sad for him, I guess. Clearly different approaches suit different people.
If you listen to this you will learn the pitfall of the wrong method of practicing Sati.
Since the speech on the video is almost incomprehesible to me, that's unlikely! :tongue:

Of course, he's entitled to his opinion, and I wish him well with whatever approach he has found useful for him.

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Re: Finding Mahasi Sayadaw Meditation difficult

Post by SarathW » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:14 am

noting is intended as an aid to mindfulness, rather like counting the breaths in meditation.
Noting is the Mansikara and it is not the Yonisomanasikara.
The point of the video I posted above is all at this point.
This monk said that he wasted 20 years doing that.
Unfortunately, this video is not user-friendly.
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Re: Finding Mahasi Sayadaw Meditation difficult

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:19 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:14 am
noting is intended as an aid to mindfulness, rather like counting the breaths in meditation.
Noting is the Mansikara and it is not the Yonisomanasikara.
I'm not sure I see the relevance here of wise and unwise attention.

But clearly the point is not to practice mindfulness of words ( noting ) or mindfulness of numbers ( breath counting ).
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Re: Finding Mahasi Sayadaw Meditation difficult

Post by Zom » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:50 am

Noting is the Mansikara and it is not the Yonisomanasikara.
The point of the video I posted above is all at this point.
This monk said that he wasted 20 years doing that.
Yes. "Noting" just helps to establish mindfulness. But this method alone leads you nowhere, of course. You need also to put efforts in doing different things noted by mindfulness .) (path factor N6)

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Re: Finding Mahasi Sayadaw Meditation difficult

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:43 pm

Zom wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:50 am
Yes. "Noting" just helps to establish mindfulness. But this method alone leads you nowhere, of course. You need also to put efforts in doing different things noted by mindfulness .) (path factor N6)
Well said. Naming/noting is a very minor part of the approach, and anyone who doesn't appreciate that can be safely ignored, in my opinion.

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robertk
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Re: Arguing about Mahasi Sayadaw and Goenka Meditation

Post by robertk » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:23 pm

When I was in an Acharn Naeb center ( back in the day) I met a sri lankan monk who felt the same way - he lived at Kandabodha center for years, before coming to thailand.

His coments were very helpful at the time for me: this was pre- internet and it was hard to get any balanced opinions.
Long story short - eventually I could see clearly that insight was not dependent on special situations or techniques. I respected mahasi way more than the scanning techniquerists - due to his deference to the Pali texts and scholarly knowledge- but still it seemed not the way.

Even the Acharn Naeb explanations/way has a degree( a small one) of contrivance, that IMHO, is counterproductive.

Anyway if anyone wants more of my thinking see Causes for wisdom thread.
viewtopic.php?t=15952

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robertk
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Re: Finding Mahasi Sayadaw Meditation difficult

Post by robertk » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:43 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:23 am
SarathW wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:11 am
In the attached video this monk Ven. Pemasiri explains how he wasted 20 years by following Mahasi and Goenka method. ...
That's sad for him, I guess. Clearly different approaches suit different people.

When someone is asking for help with a particular approach, I don't think it is useful to post criticisms from people who do not find that particular approach helpful.

I could easily find someone critical of any approach, but what would that prove? :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

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Mike
This monk, if he is the one I am thinking of ( am I right Sarath?) was a well-known meditation master teaching burmese method .
He might have misgivings about all the students he believes he sent in the wrong way, If that is so it is appropriate for him to let people know his current thinking..

edit: i just saw the other thread which this one was broken from. So that explains your comments - the video was a bit off topic.

SarathW
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Re: Arguing about Mahasi Sayadaw and Goenka Meditation

Post by SarathW » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:20 am

am I right Sarath?)
I just bump in to this video while I am browsing the you tube.
Now I think he is from Kanduboda forest meditation centre.
I found some more videos and will confirm later.
In this particular video he said that he is not an Arahant.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Arguing about Mahasi Sayadaw and Goenka Meditation

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:24 am

Greetings Sarath,

If you happen to find anything written and translated into English from the bhikkhu, I would be interested in reading that.

Unfortunately, the sound on the video is not well mastered, and I suspect much is lost in translation.

If there is indeed a nugget of gold in there, it shouldn't be hard to explain it in words.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

SarathW
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Re: Arguing about Mahasi Sayadaw and Goenka Meditation

Post by SarathW » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:38 am

The following video got English subtitles.

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: Arguing about Mahasi Sayadaw and Goenka Meditation

Post by SarathW » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:42 am

If there is indeed a nugget of gold in there, it shouldn't be hard to explain it in words.
In the Dhamma class video, he talks about his teachers and how they died with full awareness.
There is nothing special that you and I do not know in this videos.
What I clearly learned from him was what is Manasikara, yonisomanasikara, and Satisampagnana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Arguing about Mahasi Sayadaw and Goenka Meditation

Post by Zom » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:53 pm

What I clearly learned from him was what is Manasikara, yonisomanasikara, and Satisampagnana.
Better to learn about these terms from suttas.

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