Meditation and Silabbatupadana

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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retrofuturist
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Meditation and Silabbatupadana

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Are there are meditation approaches/techniques or attitudes towards meditation, which could be regarding as clinging to rites-and-rituals (silabbatupadana)?

:meditate:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
SarathW
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Re: Meditation and Silabbatupadana

Post by SarathW »

which could be regarding as clinging to rites-and-rituals (silabbatupadana)?
I think clinging to meditation is clinging to rites-and-rituals.
Buddha advised us not to cling to meditation.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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retrofuturist
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Re: Meditation and Silabbatupadana

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Sarath,
SarathW wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:05 am Buddha advised us not to cling to meditation.
Do you happen to have easy access to the sutta which says this?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
SarathW
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Re: Meditation and Silabbatupadana

Post by SarathW »

[Do you happen to have easy access to the sutta which says this?/quote]
Sorry, I can't recall it right now.
However, Buddha allowed monks to enjoy meditation pleasures.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Meditation and Silabbatupadana

Post by JohnK »

retrofuturist wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:48 am Greetings,

Are there are meditation approaches/techniques or attitudes towards meditation, which could be regarding as clinging to rites-and-rituals (silabbatupadana)?

:meditate:

Metta,
Paul. :)
I think "yes." I think a part of one's motivation for meditation could be based on magical thinking. If so, the meditation could be a waste of time ("I'll just sit here and space out -- with great devotion). On the other hand, I think it is possible that the magical thinking could help one "get on the cushion" and nevertheless meditate more correctly. Hmm, it might even be the case that, until stream entry, there will likely be at least some element of "clinging to rites and rituals" as a part of the motivation for meditation.
Paul, why did you ask?
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
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Re: Meditation and Silabbatupadana

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings John,
JohnK wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:06 pm Paul, why did you ask?
I'd seen the argument presented in the past, and was keen to see if, and how, it could be substantiated. Furthermore whether there was any scriptural backing behind such reasoning.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Meditation and Silabbatupadana

Post by Sam Vara »

Is there a canonical account of what would constitute clinging to rites and rituals, or a description of it?

I ask because I have heard monastics present this in two different ways:

1) As a form of "magical thinking" which attributes supernatural power to publicly understood rituals such as petitionary prayer, chanting, offerings, and the like; and

2) Attachment to particular ways of practising which might be specific to the individual, along the lines of "If I can just avoid dairy in my diet, and make sure that I do my Tai Chi every morning, I know I'll have a great meditation...", etc., etc. This is often based upon past "success" in the practice, and is a deluded attempt to control all the variables so as to maintain optimal momentum.

It seems that both could form the basis for attachment around meditation, but for very different reasons.
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