cessation of perception

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Dhammarakkhito
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cessation of perception

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:32 am

already talked about this on fb so i'll share in quotes:
'would like to know if gaps in consciousness are due to successful practice or to excess caffeine intake'
'awareness is present but just like it's happening and i'm not there. how would i describe'
'like it (consciousness) just stops
when it comes back i discern there was a cessation'
'i wouldn't say died, just kinda disappeared. like
still able to move and talk but it's like it's just happening without 'me'
i've been doing breath meditation for years and now i am doing basic satipaṭṭhāna, just observing mind and feelings and trying not to grasp at them'
'[how much caffeine] hundreds of milligrams
sometimes over 500'

i think its pretty good but dont want to say its more if its not. may also be having both the experience of cessation and the loss of actual consciousness from drug use
if yall want to move this to personal experiences ok
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

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SarathW
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by SarathW » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:07 am

sometimes over 500'
Why do you need caffeine if you can attain cessation of perception and feeling?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:52 am

i dont need caffeine and i'm better off without it, but i crave it
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

SarathW
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by SarathW » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:26 am

What I am saying is give up caffeine and see whether you still experience the cessation of perception.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

perkele
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by perkele » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:35 pm

"Zoning out" from too much coffee is something I have experienced once. I had drunken five litres of quite strong coffee that day and night combined, using over half a pound of coffee powder. That must have been at least 2 or 3 grams of pure caffeine, I think. It was not pleasent. The intermittent "zoning out" was somewhat pleasent, but short, and mixed with fear of dying (so I was actually afraid of totally zoning out). I was sweating like crazy, my heart was racing and my stomach hurt. The short slightly pleasent moments of "zoning out" were just defense-mechanisms of the body against the pain, I guess.
I'm sure this had nothing to do with "cessation of perception and feeling". Not sure exactly what parallels to your experience could possibly be drawn from that, though.

Luckily, I had free access to a finnish sauna at the time where I could go and detox myself over the next couple of days (being an exchange student in Jyväskylä at the time). But my kidneys did not stop hurting for at least a week.

Saengnapha
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:19 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:32 am
already talked about this on fb so i'll share in quotes:
'would like to know if gaps in consciousness are due to successful practice or to excess caffeine intake'
'awareness is present but just like it's happening and i'm not there. how would i describe'
'like it (consciousness) just stops
when it comes back i discern there was a cessation'
'i wouldn't say died, just kinda disappeared. like
still able to move and talk but it's like it's just happening without 'me'
i've been doing breath meditation for years and now i am doing basic satipaṭṭhāna, just observing mind and feelings and trying not to grasp at them'
'[how much caffeine] hundreds of milligrams
sometimes over 500'

i think its pretty good but dont want to say its more if its not. may also be having both the experience of cessation and the loss of actual consciousness from drug use
if yall want to move this to personal experiences ok
I think what you are describing is a form of psychosis, not successful meditation practice, due to drug overdose, caffeine.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:49 am

ok, if i hadn't said anything about caffeine then would you have said that
i think it's irrelevant
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:51 am

have not had an experience like you are talking about perkele
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

Saengnapha
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:13 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:49 am
ok, if i hadn't said anything about caffeine then would you have said that
i think it's irrelevant
yes.

2600htz
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by 2600htz » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:46 pm

Hello:

Lol no haha.

If a person experiences the "cessation of perception and feeling", at that time there is no awareness, there is no walking or talking. Consciousness is turned off, its like a black out, there is nothing, mind stops for a while ( you just have heat and vitality ).

When the perception and feeling comes back, you will see how the whole process starts up again (dependent origination), thats why "the taints are destroyed by seeing with wisdom".

Regards.

Saengnapha
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:39 am

2600htz wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:46 pm
Hello:

Lol no haha.

If a person experiences the "cessation of perception and feeling", at that time there is no awareness, there is no walking or talking. Consciousness is turned off, its like a black out, there is nothing, mind stops for a while ( you just have heat and vitality ).

When the perception and feeling comes back, you will see how the whole process starts up again (dependent origination), thats why "the taints are destroyed by seeing with wisdom".

Regards.
I'm not sure who you are addressing this to. What you are describing is what happened to the Buddha after he let go of the state of neither sensation nor non sensation. A kind of death took place. What others here are talking about is a temporary blackout which is not part of this conscious process and should also not be made into something 'important'.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:12 am

i'm quite aware that the cessation of perception and feeling as described in the suttas is not my experience, just get terms mixed up. have a hard time describing; lack of consciousness maybe not the right term, not a blackout, maybe lack of attention or of lack of me-making. anyway, on my end it was an interesting and lucid experience, not hung up on making it out to be any more. not really interested in talking about it anymore due to the negative feedback but maybe via pm
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

2600htz
Posts: 352
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by 2600htz » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:31 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:39 am
2600htz wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:46 pm
Hello:

Lol no haha.

If a person experiences the "cessation of perception and feeling", at that time there is no awareness, there is no walking or talking. Consciousness is turned off, its like a black out, there is nothing, mind stops for a while ( you just have heat and vitality ).

When the perception and feeling comes back, you will see how the whole process starts up again (dependent origination), thats why "the taints are destroyed by seeing with wisdom".

Regards.
I'm not sure who you are addressing this to. What you are describing is what happened to the Buddha after he let go of the state of neither sensation nor non sensation. A kind of death took place. What others here are talking about is a temporary blackout which is not part of this conscious process and should also not be made into something 'important'.
Hello:

It was addressed to the creator of the topic, because he used the words "cessation, cessation of perception, consciousness stoping", so he could be thinking about nirodha samapatti, but now he confirmed that it wasn´t in his thoughts.

Regards.

auto
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by auto » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:03 pm

cessation of feeling and perception.

if feeling rises from unabilty or from a negative object like you want do something but can't then at some point you come aware and realize you don't have craving anymore. and notice you were gone. Like you want to eat apple but it isn't there and there will still be feeling and perception of it then at some point you come aware and notice that you don't have craving or feeling anymore.

There is steps before or different type of cessation. Since you need realize thoughts are empty by seeing breath, what will take the drive away from making bodyly actions.
Like you have desire to drink there rises also breath or aura of friendship, love, likeness kind of feeling and you want to make it happen, so you call people or walk to store etc. But if you see the breath and doesn't allow it to rise pass neck by seeing a blackout and thereon can avoid that path and keep breath in belly and see that the feeling of love is just breath and then the thought of going out loses its allure.

third type is you see mind seem move horizontally by withstanding hand action or approval and focusing on the fire of craving in head.

Saengnapha
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Re: cessation of perception

Post by Saengnapha » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:54 am

auto wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:03 pm
cessation of feeling and perception.

if feeling rises from unabilty or from a negative object like you want do something but can't then at some point you come aware and realize you don't have craving anymore. and notice you were gone. Like you want to eat apple but it isn't there and there will still be feeling and perception of it then at some point you come aware and notice that you don't have craving or feeling anymore.

There is steps before or different type of cessation. Since you need realize thoughts are empty by seeing breath, what will take the drive away from making bodyly actions.
Like you have desire to drink there rises also breath or aura of friendship, love, likeness kind of feeling and you want to make it happen, so you call people or walk to store etc. But if you see the breath and doesn't allow it to rise pass neck by seeing a blackout and thereon can avoid that path and keep breath in belly and see that the feeling of love is just breath and then the thought of going out loses its allure.

third type is you see mind seem move horizontally by withstanding hand action or approval and focusing on the fire of craving in head.
It's all thinking, pure and simple.

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