This make sense.. The second half of the sutta I quoted shows that that the only time one must withdraw from jhana to practice insight is when one reaches the formless Jhanas:
Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
Re: Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
Re: Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
I thought so too.form wrote:This make. The second half of the sutta I quoted shows that that the only time one must withdraw from jhana to practice insight is when one reaches the formless Jhanas:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
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Re: Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
="bodom"]
there is no clear bell telling you, "hey dude!, hre we are, this is jhana 3!". Some people will think they have reached, but no. Some people might think not yet, but yes. Issue is, despite practicing, one still relies on book to put a name on his practice ; so debate about what we call what cannot be avoided. And since subjective mental states cannot be measured, we are doomed to try our best to be honnest ^^
bodom wrote: that it is why it is best to practice under a qualified teacher.
Even under a teacher, the pitfalls remain. No teacher can spare you no matter how many times they warn or instruct you. You are the only one who can confirm your own state. If you fool yourself, it's only a matter of time before you begin to see it. Some take less time than others.
Re: Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
This thing u talk about teacher also made sense.Saengnapha wrote:="bodom"]
there is no clear bell telling you, "hey dude!, hre we are, this is jhana 3!". Some people will think they have reached, but no. Some people might think not yet, but yes. Issue is, despite practicing, one still relies on book to put a name on his practice ; so debate about what we call what cannot be avoided. And since subjective mental states cannot be measured, we are doomed to try our best to be honnest ^^bodom wrote: that it is why it is best to practice under a qualified teacher.
Even under a teacher, the pitfalls remain. No teacher can spare you no matter how many times they warn or instruct you. You are the only one who can confirm your own state. If you fool yourself, it's only a matter of time before you begin to see it. Some take less time than others.
Re: Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
What do u think of formless realms are still 4th jhanas, just a change in the object of attention?bodom wrote:I thought so too.form wrote:This make. The second half of the sutta I quoted shows that that the only time one must withdraw from jhana to practice insight is when one reaches the formless Jhanas:
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Re: Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
Hi,
I start vipassana from the plane of accsess-concentration. I follow instructions based on thai forest tradtion/teachings.
best
I start vipassana from the plane of accsess-concentration. I follow instructions based on thai forest tradtion/teachings.
best
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
Re: Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
Well yes as the deeper one moves into the formless attainments the more objects are relinquished until the highest and final attainment of cessation of feeling and perception. There are literally no more objects of attention to be let go of.form wrote:What do u think of formless realms are still 4th jhanas, just a change in the object of attention?
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
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Re: Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
What has jhana done for you? Why are you so interested in it?bodom wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:02 pmNot for those who practice it. Disagreements arise only over the explanations from books. Best bet is to experience jhana for yourself under a qualified teacher.form wrote:Saengnapha wrote: If you really want an answer to your objections, you must enter Jhanas and see for yourself. There is no basis for blind belief in one sutta over another. Context and other factors will determine what is spoken of by the Buddha or any other teacher.
As a matter of fact, even the definition of jhana is debatable.
Re: Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
Because it is part of the eightfold path and I would hope every serious Buddhist meditator would be interested in it.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:23 pmWhat has jhana done for you? Why are you so interested in it?
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
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Re: Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
Bodom, can you direct me to any suttas where the Buddha speaks directly about jhanas? Not any of the commentaries, but suttas themselves. Also, where does the Buddha say that jhanas are the cause or condition of the 3 knowledges of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and not self?bodom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:35 pmBecause it is part of the eightfold path and I would hope every serious Buddhist meditator would be interested in it.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:23 pmWhat has jhana done for you? Why are you so interested in it?
The first time I experienced jhana was almost 50 years ago, spontaneously, and without ever hearing the word. I am not unfamiliar with it.
Re: Is insight practiced in or out of jhana?
Sorry I am unable to post links at this time but please search access to insight website for jhana and it will give you tons of results.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:18 pmBodom, can you direct me to any suttas where the Buddha speaks directly about jhanas? Not any of the commentaries, but suttas themselves. Also, where does the Buddha say that jhanas are the cause or condition of the 3 knowledges of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and not self?bodom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:35 pmBecause it is part of the eightfold path and I would hope every serious Buddhist meditator would be interested in it.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:23 pm
What has jhana done for you? Why are you so interested in it?
The first time I experienced jhana was almost 50 years ago, spontaneously, and without ever hearing the word. I am not unfamiliar with it.
Also you will not find a sutta where the Buddha says that jhana will lead to the knowledges of anicca, dukkha and anatta because they are not knowledges. They are perceptions to induce dispassion and disenchantment for the 5 aggregates.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
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