Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
Post Reply
lotus flower
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:04 pm

Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by lotus flower » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:02 pm

Can someone attain Once returner if she or he has sexual activity? I mean she or he has a loving relationship and not a sex mad.
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 3754
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:08 pm

I suggest striving to attain Stream-entry first, then worry about the higher stages. The answers in your previous thread also apply even more so to the higher stages of the path.
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

spacenick
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:31 pm

Re: Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by spacenick » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:53 pm

Stages of enlightenment are too often thought of as things to 'attain' (and exactly the same attitude pervades towards the jhanas), but really they are stages that marks one's gradual detachment from the world (or existence, life, etc. Not just 'this universe;earth'), there are markers of less and less involvement and entanglement with the world.

So you're essentially asking: can I keep being entangled in the world and 'attain' stages where I am less entangled in the world ? Put like that, the answer is obvious, isn't it?

(as for the details of whether or not you can still have sex at the stage of once-returner, I cannot say for sure but I can hardly see any practitioner at that level have that kind of 'gross' interest (pleasure from concentration is so much more gratifying than sex))

User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 3754
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:53 pm

spacenick wrote:Stages of enlightenment are too often thought of as things to 'attain' (and exactly the same attitude pervades towards the jhanas), but really they are stages that marks one's gradual detachment from the world (or existence, life, etc.
The four stages of the path and the jhānas are clearly attainments samāpatti, and the four paths are irreversible achievements that do not need to be repeated. The jhānas and mystic powers are attainments that may later be lost, as happened, for example, to Devadatta.
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

dhammarelax
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:59 pm

Re: Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by dhammarelax » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:17 pm

lotus flower wrote:Can someone attain Once returner if she or he has sexual activity? I mean she or he has a loving relationship and not a sex mad.
Yes in the Suttas this is stated that in the Buddhas time there was at least one Once returner who lived a "contented" married life.

Smile
Dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5

spacenick
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:31 pm

Re: Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by spacenick » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:24 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
spacenick wrote:Stages of enlightenment are too often thought of as things to 'attain' (and exactly the same attitude pervades towards the jhanas), but really they are stages that marks one's gradual detachment from the world (or existence, life, etc.
The four stages of the path and the jhānas are clearly attainments samāpatti, and the four paths are irreversible achievements that do not need to be repeated. The jhānas and mystic powers are attainments that may later be lost, as happened, for example, to Devadatta.
Sure, but the mechanism of 'achieving' these is one of letting go, not of acquisition. I make that point clear because I've found that we are all very good at willing ourselves to 'get things' (and some people might get so good at that that they might even think that they are arahants because they have 'attained' 'special experiences'), but less willing to give up ourselves completely to the Dhamma.

This is what I'm pointing out here: I interpret the question in itself as being charged with craving, something along the line of "I want to be a once-returner but still enjoy sex". Most of the issues around precepts are the same ("I kind of like Buddhism but still do not want to give up drinking"). That mindset will not lead to liberation - it intrinsically cannot!

If there's still the basic blindness (avijja) that there's someone 'getting enlightened' or 'attaining a stage', then one hasn't even started!

SarathW
Posts: 10514
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by SarathW » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:51 am

spacenick wrote:Stages of enlightenment are too often thought of as things to 'attain' (and exactly the same attitude pervades towards the jhanas), but really they are stages that marks one's gradual detachment from the world (or existence, life, etc. Not just 'this universe;earth'), there are markers of less and less involvement and entanglement with the world.

So you're essentially asking: can I keep being entangled in the world and 'attain' stages where I am less entangled in the world ? Put like that, the answer is obvious, isn't it?

(as for the details of whether or not you can still have sex at the stage of once-returner, I cannot say for sure but I can hardly see any practitioner at that level have that kind of 'gross' interest (pleasure from concentration is so much more gratifying than sex))
:goodpost:

In regard to OP it depend on how much sex and what type and how much craving involved.

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 5827&hilit

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 4467&hilit
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Caodemarte
Posts: 832
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 3:21 pm

Re: Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by Caodemarte » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:25 am

Well, the Buddha was a father. There are too many accomplished laymen and laywomen who were fathers and mothers to count (see the story of Dipa Ma for a powerful example).

The Dhamma is not a wholly abstract thing floating off in the sky divorced from daily reality. It is right here that we need to practice. Asceticism or alienating or detaching yourself from life, especially as a lay person, does not seem very Buddhist or beneficial. Neither is self indulgence. Try the middle path in moderate, wholesome lay relationships and moderate, wholesome appropriate pleasures. It will not lead you astray.

User avatar
Chula
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:58 am
Location: Sri Lanka

Re: Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by Chula » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:44 am

Being a parent is not the same as having sex. It just means you had sex before.

Going on the middle path doesn't necessarily equate to having sex. Even for a lay follower. It really depends on how serious you are in the practice.
Last edited by Chula on Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Caodemarte
Posts: 832
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 3:21 pm

Re: Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by Caodemarte » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:11 pm

Chula wrote:Being a parent is not the same as having sex. It just means you had sex before.

Going on the middle path doesn't necessarily equate to having sex. Even for a lay follower. It really depends on how serious you in the practice.
Yes, following the middle path does not equate to having sex or not having sex. Being serious (not grim), sensible, and appropriate is important.

Sylvester
Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by Sylvester » Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:53 am

lotus flower wrote:Can someone attain Once returner if she or he has sexual activity? I mean she or he has a loving relationship and not a sex mad.

You can, just like the example of Isidatta in AN 6.44. Read especially the final passage in the sutta as to the distinctions between Purana and Isidatta, based on their respective virtues and wisdom.

lotus flower
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:04 pm

Re: Can someone attain Once returner if he or she do sex?

Post by lotus flower » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:51 pm

Thank you very much for the sutta! :thanks:
Sylvester wrote:
lotus flower wrote:Can someone attain Once returner if she or he has sexual activity? I mean she or he has a loving relationship and not a sex mad.

You can, just like the example of Isidatta in AN 6.44. Read especially the final passage in the sutta as to the distinctions between Purana and Isidatta, based on their respective virtues and wisdom.
We found the teaching of the Buddha. Be grateful for it... We can meditate... Be grateful for it... We know that this universe is the samsara. Be grateful for it... We have THE CHANCE TO ATTAIN NIBBANA. Be grateful for it... :buddha1: :buddha2:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests