Out of Body Experience? Or something ...

[kendali]

I've been meditating on and off for years and I think I've fallen into a bad habit. When I meditate I forget I'm breathing by about 20 minutes in and by 30-40 minutes I go to a place where it feels like it's just me and my mind. It's dark and I don't feel my body anymore. It's peaceful and I want to be there so I find myself aiming for that place. However, I have a feeling I'm too attached to it. Should I be grounding myself when I reach this mental state? IOW, should I remind myself that I'm sitting and breathing or should I stop hanging out there and merely observe this state? Does this experience even have a name?

I don't have access to a teacher. I learned to meditate through Bhante Gunaratana's book "Mindfulness in Plain English" and earlier from a Zen book that I can't recall the title* of now.

*Just recalled it was "The Three Pillars of Zen" by Philip Kapleau.

[Pinetree]

You certainly should be mindful of the experiences that you have, such as wanting, aiming, the attachment, the peace, and possibly the pleasure that you find in that peace.

I don't have access to a teacher.

Maybe you do ...

For example, Ven. Yuttadhammo offers free Web-based meditation courses, teaching Vipassana in the Mahasi tradition. In case you have any interest in this method, I'll give you few details, feel free to ask if there is anything more you need to know.

Shortly, the prerequisite for taking the course is to read Ven. Yuttadhammo's booklet (where he shortly describes the Mahasi method) and practice meditation according to that method for few weeks, at least 1 hour per day. After that, you can register on the site for a weekly interview where you can discuss your progress, receive advice, etc. The interview happens online, through webcam.

The site of the meditation center also has other resources, such as links to video teachings (grouped under a youtube channel), a chat room for mediators, where people meet to meditate.

This is the link to the "How To Meditate" booklet:
http://www.sirimangalo.org/text/how-to-meditate/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(there has been talk about updating the http://www.sirimangalo.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; website, I hope that won't result in a broken link)

[mikenz66]

Hi kendali,

I think it's a common problem to get into a pleasant state, and lose focus and mindfulness. Certainly happens to me sometimes! It's great that you notice it's happening.

I discussed similar issues here:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=11240

See also:

n practicing the Dhamma, if you don't foster a balance between concentration and discernment, you'll end up going wild in your thinking. If there's too much work at discernment, you'll go wild in your thinking. If there's too much concentration, it just stays still and undisturbed without coming to any knowledge either. So you have to keep them in balance. Stillness has to be paired with discernment. Don't let there be too much of one or the other. Try to get them just right. That's when you'll be able to see things clearly all the way through. Otherwise, you'll stay as deluded as ever. You may want to gain discernment into too many things — and as a result, your thinking goes wild. The mind goes out of control. Some people keep wondering why discernment never arises in their practice, but when it does arise they really go off on a tangent. Their thinking goes wild, all out of bounds.
...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... d.html#way

Mike

[kendali]

I don't have access to a teacher.

Maybe you do ...

For example, Ven. Yuttadhammo offers free Web-based meditation courses, teaching Vipassana in the Mahasi tradition. In case you have any interest in this method, I'll give you few details, feel free to ask if there is anything more you need to know.

Shortly, the prerequisite for taking the course is to read Ven. Yuttadhammo's booklet (where he shortly describes the Mahasi method) and practice meditation according to that method for few weeks, at least 1 hour per day. After that, you can register on the site for a weekly interview where you can discuss your progress, receive advice, etc. The interview happens online, through webcam.

The site of the meditation center also has other resources, such as links to video teachings (grouped under a youtube channel), a chat room for mediators, where people meet to meditate.

This is the link to the "How To Meditate" booklet:
http://www.sirimangalo.org/text/how-to-meditate/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(there has been talk about updating the http://www.sirimangalo.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; website, I hope that won't result in a broken link)

This seems like a wonderful resource. Thank you; I'll read the booklet.

[kendali]

Hi Mike,

Hi kendali,

I think it's a common problem to get into a pleasant state, and lose focus and mindfulness. Certainly happens to me sometimes! It's great that you notice it's happening.

I discussed similar issues here:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=11240

Lovely experience. Thank you for sharing.

See also:

n practicing the Dhamma, if you don't foster a balance between concentration and discernment, you'll end up going wild in your thinking. If there's too much work at discernment, you'll go wild in your thinking. If there's too much concentration, it just stays still and undisturbed without coming to any knowledge either. So you have to keep them in balance. Stillness has to be paired with discernment. Don't let there be too much of one or the other. Try to get them just right. That's when you'll be able to see things clearly all the way through. Otherwise, you'll stay as deluded as ever. You may want to gain discernment into too many things — and as a result, your thinking goes wild. The mind goes out of control. Some people keep wondering why discernment never arises in their practice, but when it does arise they really go off on a tangent. Their thinking goes wild, all out of bounds.
...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... d.html#way

Much wisdom.

Thanks,
Dan

[Saoshun]

You have to choices either let go or go all the way in. I suggest you to notice whatever happen and stay with it without engaging mind into it. You can try go with your mind thru that darkness if you purify that darkness you will go to inner light which it's subtler layer of mind and it will give you rise for panna. You can use Maha Boowa type examination of this experience to analyze it in relation to Citta. There are many options, you must be flexible when practicing dhamma and it's your experiences so do not be scared of yourself just analyze whatever happen and let it go.

In such cases you must be your own skillful doctor especially if you do not have teacher near by. Anyway keep going try to realize anatta in that experience but it's seems that you already had some before? Most of the darkness stuff appears after anatta.

[pegembara]

I've been meditating on and off for years and I think I've fallen into a bad habit. When I meditate I forget I'm breathing by about 20 minutes in and by 30-40 minutes I go to a place where it feels like it's just me and my mind. It's dark and I don't feel my body anymore. It's peaceful and I want to be there so I find myself aiming for that place. However, I have a feeling I'm too attached to it. Should I be grounding myself when I reach this mental state? IOW, should I remind myself that I'm sitting and breathing or should I stop hanging out there and merely observe this state? Does this experience even have a name?

I don't have access to a teacher. I learned to meditate through Bhante Gunaratana's book "Mindfulness in Plain English" and earlier from a Zen book that I can't recall the title* of now.

*Just recalled it was "The Three Pillars of Zen" by Philip Kapleau.

This "out of body" experience is a refined meditative state and many teachers would advise to come out of it to observe impermanence(arising and passing away). There is a risk of getting stuck in this state without further progress.

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of perceptions of [physical] form, with the disappearance of perceptions of resistance, and not heeding perceptions of diversity, [perceiving,] 'Infinite space,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of the infinitude of space

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of space, [perceiving,] 'Infinite consciousness,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness.

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, [perceiving,] 'There is nothing,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of nothingness.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[kendali]

This "out of body" experience is a refined meditative state and many teachers would advise to come out of it to observe impermanence(arising and passing away). There is a risk of getting stuck in this state without further progress.

I certainly feel stuck sometimes. I think in Zen it's called makyo or, according to Kapleau, Satan's Cave. I may be wrong of course but it is enticing.

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of perceptions of [physical] form, with the disappearance of perceptions of resistance, and not heeding perceptions of diversity, [perceiving,] 'Infinite space,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of the infinitude of space

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of space, [perceiving,] 'Infinite consciousness,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness.

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, [perceiving,] 'There is nothing,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of nothingness.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the scripture, it helps! Infinitude of space, consciousness, and dimension of nothingness. Fitting descriptions. I'll try to just let the experience come and go and not see it as a goal. Tough one.