Goofaholix wrote: MisterRunon wrote:
Hey Ben.. I am genuinely asking you this (no rhetoric here), but I believe I remember what the monk told me: Goenka's teachings leave out 3 out of the 4 applications of mindfulness found in the Satipathanna. His teaching focuses primarily on the 2nd, which is Vedana. I remembered he said that Goenka omits 1 out of 4 "something," but recently stumbled upon this site http://themiddleway.net/?p=98
The first foundation of mindfulness is the body, I think it's pretty obvious Goenka's method is based on mindfulness of the body.
The second is vedana feeling, and as you've noted Goenka's method also covers this.
The third is mind, most teacher don't encourage taking the mind as an object of mindfulness initially, you really need a grounding in body and feeling first. I would expect this would come in later either as the meditator progresses with or without the teacher guiding.
The fourth is dhamma, it's about reflecting on what you observe with regards to the other foundations and how it relates to what you understand of the dhamma, this happens naturally when you are working with the other 3 foundations of mindfulness together with being taught the theory, I think he has this covered.
I would have said Goenkas method was more based on the body sensation, and less based on actions and activity ie moving, thinking, hearing, intending, daily activities etc
I think Goenka uses the body as a conduit for feeling the sensations, so that might not be the same "mindfulness of body" that is referred to as in the Satipatthana? I'm not sure myself, though Joseph Goldstein seems to agree with the link I posted (I found this while googling up other Vipassana teachers). http://www.tricycle.com/web-exclusive/t ... -goldstein
In the method taught by S.N. Goenka, we feel the different sensations as we scan or "sweep" the body with our awareness. This sweeping is done in a systematic and careful way, with equanimity towards both pleasant and unpleasant sensations. Over time, the mindfulness and concentration become stronger and we feel more and more subtle sensations in the body. This sweeping method automatically makes us aware of the second foundation of mindfulness, namely feelings - the pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral aspects of the sensations. And we also begin to feel all of the different factors of mind as they are experienced through the body.
He goes on to talk about other techniques, which (at least based on how I interpret it) he seems to hint as being more "all-encompassing."
In some other methods of vipassana, the breath is used as the primary object, and the instruction is to notice/note any other arising experience. So from the anchor of the breath, we then look directly at different sensations as they arise, at thoughts and emotions as they appear in the mind, and finally at awareness itself. So for example, as we're with the breath and a thought arises, we would note, or simply notice, "thinking, thinking"; or if we feel different hindrances, we might note "anger, anger" or "sleepiness, sleepiness". Then when that object passes away, we return to the breath. Over time, we begin to notice with greater clarity and refinement the entire range of passing phenomena, and through this awareness of change the mind more easily lets go of clinging and attachment.
I like what I see of Joseph Goldstein.. I think I'm narrowing down my options to Joseph Goldstein/Jack Kornfield or one of the Thai Forest Monastery teachers. I believe Joseph and Jack are lineaged from the Mahasi school, right? So can anyone confirm they teach the same technique as Mahasi?