Why Meditate?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Tilt,
tiltbillings wrote:In other words until you hear back from him on this matter, it is too early to say "Ron-Dhamma" as of yet.
Well, it's Ron-Dhamma because it's what Ron teaches, but it may well be other things too.

Back here... http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 40#p189238" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... he said...

"What I'm teaching is right down the middle Visuddhimagga and Mahasi Sayadaw style buddhism"

I responded by saying...

"Then that is what it would be best to call it."

At which point it becomes none of my business, because I take neither Mahasi Sayadaw nor Buddhaghosa as my teacher. Those who do take those particular elders as their teachers can then decide for themselves whether he is representing those teachers accurately or not, and I will sit and watch with interest.

:popcorn:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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tiltbillings
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tilt,
tiltbillings wrote:In other words until you hear back from him on this matter, it is too early to say "Ron-Dhamma" as of yet.
Well, it's Ron-Dhamma because it's what Ron teaches, but it may well be other things too.
Well, it is hard to know how to respond this. Whatever your intentions here may be, this "Ron-Dhamma" business comes across as more than a little demeaning. I think we need to be a bit better than that.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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retrofuturist
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Tilt,

I don't see why that is so, when it's a syntax that Ron himself endorses...
“Dharma” is the sanskrit translation of the Pali word “Dhamma” which roughly means “law”. But this isn’t law in a legal sense but in a natural sense, like the “law of gravity.” The law referred to by “Dharma” is the natural process that leads to enlightenment, moksha, awakening or liberation (pick your favorite term). To learn the Dharma is to learn how to wake up and become enlightened.
There are many teachers who have taught people how to wake up and become enlightened. For this reason, it is customary to put the teacher’s name as a prefix. This helps the listener know which Dharma is being discussed. Most of what is taught on this site is “Buddha-Dharma”, though not all of it is. The Dharma taught by great teachers such as Lao Tzu, Ramana Maharshi, and Nisargadatta are examples of perfectly wonderful teachings from completely different traditions. If I were teaching you how to get to heaven through Christianity it would be perfectly acceptable (though a little weird) to call it “Jesus-Dharma.”
Source: http://alohadharma.wordpress.com/genera ... -teaching/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just because some people might speak sarcastically and judgmentally when they use such prefixes, doesn't mean that I am falling foul of Wrong Speech in that same way.

Let us not be misanthropic towards kalyana-mittas.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by mikenz66 »

retrofuturist wrote: But what I am in position to do, and what I will do is to fulfil the duty requested of us by the Buddha... so, let us listen and pay heed to his words.
So Vens. Buddhaghosa, Mahasi, Chah, Buddhadassa, Bodhi, Mun, Brahm, Nananada, U Pandita, Thanissaro, Pa Auk, Sumedho, Gunaratana, Amaro, etc, didn't pay heed to his words and didn't/don't teach Buddha-Dhamma? Or perhaps some of them and not others? Did those who don't buy into some particular view of what "Buddha-Dhamma" means not pay heed to his words?

:anjali:
Mike
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retrofuturist
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mike,

Since the supposition behind your question bears no congruence whatsoever to what I said, I will not answer it.

I am weary of responding to questions asked in such a fallacious way.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by mikenz66 »

Sorry, Retro, I don't understand your response. Your posts appear to imply that certain teachers and practitioners follow Buddha-Dhamma and certain others don't. In my opinion that all of the teachers I mentioned above have teachings that are traceable to the Buddha and either all teach Buddha-Dhamma, or none do.

:anjali:
Mike
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mike,
mikenz66 wrote:Sorry, Retro, I don't understand your response.
That is evident, and I accept the apology.

Along similar lines, I sincerely apologise in advance that I don't have another two or three years that I'm willing to spend in responding to these "your posts appear to imply" style of posts you churn out.

I've decided it's simply not worth it, because in effect, you're expecting me to defend negative implications of my speech that exist only in your mind. In the end, what profit can come of that? If anything, by responding to you I may be reinforcing your belief that your inferences and suppositions were accurate, when they were not.

Let us not be misanthropic towards our kalyana-mittas.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by mikenz66 »

retrofuturist wrote: I've decided it's simply not worth it, because in effect, you're expecting me to defend negative implications of my speech that exist only in your mind.
Actually I was asking you to clarify whether it would be possible to separate the list of teachers I provided into those whose Dhamma is traceable to the suttas and those whose Dhamma is not.

:anjali:
Mike
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tiltbillings
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:
Let us not be misanthropic towards kalyana-mittas.
Good advice for us all. I goes both ways.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Tilt,

It goes every way. Misanthropy is the antithesis of the brahma-viharas.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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tiltbillings
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tilt,

It goes every way. Misanthropy is the antithesis of the brahma-viharas.

Metta,
Retro. :)
And your points is?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mike,
mikenz66 wrote:Actually I was asking you to clarify whether it would be possible to separate the list of teachers I provided into those whose Dhamma is traceable to the suttas and those whose Dhamma is not.
If one could be bothered going through every single thing they ever taught possibly you could, but I don't really see the benefit in the exercise unless you're looking for a teacher who you wish to be some kind of proxy-Buddha for you... and I don't think you are.

It's not really a question I ask myself personally because I'm not looking towards monks, kalyana-mittas and such to fulfil the role of "the teacher". I just listen to what things such people say and decide for myself according the criteria I have adopted whether I wish to include their teachings in my raft.

If you are planning on doing such an exercise, it's best to ask them directly as you don't want to take teachings out of context, so it's going to be easier if they're alive and available to you.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Tilt,
tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:It goes every way. Misanthropy is the antithesis of the brahma-viharas.
And your points is?
That if one is misanthropic one cannot;

Cultivate metta, because one does not feel loving-kindness or good will towards others
Cultivate mudita, because one does not rejoice in the merits of others
Cultivate karuna, because one does not feel compassion or sympathy towards others
Cultivate uppekkha, because one is always looking to paint another as evil, as a reflection of their misanthropic mind

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tilt,
tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:It goes every way. Misanthropy is the antithesis of the brahma-viharas.
And your points is?
That if one is misanthropic one cannot;

Cultivate metta, because one does not feel loving-kindness or good will towards others
Cultivate mudita, because one does not rejoice in the merits of others
Cultivate karuna, because one does not feel compassion or sympathy towards others
Cultivate uppekkha, because one is always looking to paint another as evil, as a reflection of their misanthropic mind

Metta,
Retro. :)
Well, I am sure glad I am not misanthropic.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Why Meditate?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
tiltbillings wrote:Well, I am sure glad I am not misanthropic.
:twothumbsup:

Mudita,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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