Feverish thoughts

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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JackV
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Feverish thoughts

Post by JackV » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:02 pm

I know the title of this post is odd but it's the only way I can think to describe the thing I wish to ask about.

I don't really need any advice as such, I know this is just a thing, note it and continue, but it so odd I really want to know if anyone else has ever encountered this. Does (or has) anyone in their practice (Vipassana) got to a point where it feels like they suddeny are confronted with a loud messy jumble of noise, words, phrases and nonsense just zooming around their head? I can't really call them thoughts because it really doesn't feel like something thought in the typical sense, like the usual discursions my mind makes before coming back to my object. I feel no connections to these phenomenon like a "normal" thought and most of the time they are shooting around I may only catch the end or a piece of one. My focus stay pretty much solid on my object but as a secondary awarness I am aware of this mass of twisting writhing...noisy thought.
The only way i can describe it is like when you're really ill with a high fever and stuff. There is that point where you're almost delerious - not asleep yet not really awake and your mind is just rushing with essesntially incomprehensible gibberish.

This experience doesn't stay the whole way through my session, maybe only for a few minutes.

Weird, eh?
Maybe I'm just going slightly mad for a short time. ^-^

Weird eh?
Here where a thousand
captains swore grand conquest
Tall grasses their monument.

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Fede
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Re: Feverish thoughts

Post by Fede » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:23 pm

No, I get it....

I sometimes still my thoughts - thoughts I know I am generating, because they are directly related to past experience, present dilemma or future planning - and I get random voices, comments, a propos of absolutely nothing. They come thick and fast, one after another, and are gone as quickly as they appear.
What do I do?
Notice the constant buzzing noise of a monkey Mind, and go back to stillness.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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daverupa
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Re: Feverish thoughts

Post by daverupa » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:17 pm

I think I'm familiar with that sort of occurence.

In such cases, I let the breath come out of the background and become the foreground focus; it's like watching a hurricane from a thousand feet under the surface of the ocean when successful. Of course, this is a result of anapanasati practice, not vipassana methods, so mileage will vary here.

During times like those you describe, I find it even easier to set the whole mass of intellectricity aside when I note how it's so wearying, moreso than if only a few interesting or engrossing thoughts were to occur.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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retrofuturist
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Re: Feverish thoughts

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:35 pm

Greetings JackV,

(Standard caveat: If you're doing a specific practice as defined by a teacher, you may wish to consult them to discuss what you're experiencing. The following recommendation is not specific to your practice, so consider it responsibly for its applicability to you...)

Like Dave, I would recommend focusing on the breath in such a circumstance.

Furthermore, the Visuddhimagga details six different character types (carita)... one of which is "discursive". You may wish to review what it says on the matter, and consider one of the meditative disciplines it recommends for those with a "discursive" disposition.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

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Goofaholix
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Re: Feverish thoughts

Post by Goofaholix » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:46 pm

I think what you are noticing is actually normal, except normally the mind is not sensitive and quick enough to be aware of it.

So it's progess that you are now aware of it.

So just note what's happening without getting involved in the content, without trying to track it or note each little thing, just continue to otice your primary object as well as whatever mental phenomena is aridsing and passing away.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

chownah
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Re: Feverish thoughts

Post by chownah » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:55 am

most of the time they are shooting around I may only catch the end or a piece of one.
(subject to the standard caveat as posted by Rerofuturist) Probably best to not catch them.....just let them go.....
chownah

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ground
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Re: Feverish thoughts

Post by ground » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:03 am

JackV wrote:... most of the time they are shooting around I may only catch the end or a piece of one.
So you are experiencing multiple rapid recurring cessations of these phenomena (?) which would be good. You should make use of such kind of experience through fully understanding it.


Kind regards

JackV
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Re: Feverish thoughts

Post by JackV » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:20 pm

Phew!

I do let them just zoom around and watch it happen. As I said I feel very little attachment to them at all and don't even really focus on them (other than noting the occurance or phenomenon itself) Its like a buzzing of something outside whilst you're meditating, you just note it, know it's there but you don't feel like it's "yours" like thoughts. This is the same.

Cool, I just was curious if I was the only one.

Forwards!
Here where a thousand
captains swore grand conquest
Tall grasses their monument.

rowyourboat
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Re: Feverish thoughts

Post by rowyourboat » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:13 am

Could it be anxiety giving rise to half formed thoughts?

I'm not sure whether I have or have not experienced what you said.

I also watch the emotion driving/giving rise to the thought- often helpful- especially if it is a craving- it dies away as I focus my mindfulness on the craving (and not so much the content of the thought).

with metta

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effort
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Re: Feverish thoughts

Post by effort » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:47 am

check for sloth and torpor, notice that if there is sloth and torpor. learn when do they happen, do you have enough sleep before meditating? do not try to control or overcome the feeling but just become aware of something more gross like your siting posture.

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