The arising of the Dhamma-eye

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The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:40 am

Greetings,

I thought it might be interesting to explore how, in the suttas, people came to experience the arising of the Dhamma eye.

For the Buddha...

MN 36: Maha-Saccaka Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"I thought: 'I recall once, when my father the Sakyan was working, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, then — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities — I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. Could that be the path to Awakening?' Then following on that memory came the realization: 'That is the path to Awakening.' I thought: 'So why am I afraid of that pleasure that has nothing to do with sensuality, nothing to do with unskillful mental qualities?' I thought: 'I am no longer afraid of that pleasure that has nothing to do with sensuality, nothing to do with unskillful mental qualities, but that pleasure is not easy to achieve with a body so extremely emaciated. Suppose I were to take some solid food: some rice & porridge.' So I took some solid food: some rice & porridge. Now five monks had been attending on me, thinking, 'If Gotama, our contemplative, achieves some higher state, he will tell us.' But when they saw me taking some solid food — some rice & porridge — they were disgusted and left me, thinking, 'Gotama the contemplative is living luxuriously. He has abandoned his exertion and is backsliding into abundance.'

"So when I had taken solid food and regained strength, then — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities, I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, I entered & remained in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain. With the fading of rapture I remained equanimous, mindful, & alert, and sensed pleasure with the body. I entered & remained in the third jhana, of which the noble ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain. With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — I entered & remained in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain.

"When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, I directed it to the knowledge of recollecting my past lives. I recollected my manifold past lives, i.e., one birth, two...five, ten...fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, many eons of cosmic contraction, many eons of cosmic expansion, many eons of cosmic contraction & expansion: 'There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here.' Thus I remembered my manifold past lives in their modes & details.

"This was the first knowledge I attained in the first watch of the night. Ignorance was destroyed; knowledge arose; darkness was destroyed; light arose — as happens in one who is heedful, ardent, & resolute. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain.

"When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, I directed it to the knowledge of the passing away & reappearance of beings. I saw — by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human — beings passing away & re-appearing, and I discerned how they are inferior & superior, beautiful & ugly, fortunate & unfortunate in accordance with their kamma: 'These beings — who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech, & mind, who reviled the noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, in hell. But these beings — who were endowed with good conduct of body, speech & mind, who did not revile the noble ones, who held right views and undertook actions under the influence of right views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the good destinations, in the heavenly world.' Thus — by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human — I saw beings passing away & re-appearing, and I discerned how they are inferior & superior, beautiful & ugly, fortunate & unfortunate in accordance with their kamma.

"This was the second knowledge I attained in the second watch of the night. Ignorance was destroyed; knowledge arose; darkness was destroyed; light arose — as happens in one who is heedful, ardent, & resolute. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain.

"When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, I directed it to the knowledge of the ending of the mental fermentations. I discerned, as it was actually present, that 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress... These are fermentations... This is the origination of fermentations... This is the cessation of fermentations... This is the way leading to the cessation of fermentations.' My heart, thus knowing, thus seeing, was released from the fermentation of sensuality, released from the fermentation of becoming, released from the fermentation of ignorance. With release, there was the knowledge, 'Released.' I discerned that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'

"This was the third knowledge I attained in the third watch of the night. Ignorance was destroyed; knowledge arose; darkness was destroyed; light arose — as happens in one who is heedful, ardent, & resolute. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain.
And Kondanna...

SN 56.11: Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Thus have I heard. At one time the Blessed One was dwelling at Bārāṇasī in the Deer Park at Isipatana. There the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus of the group of five thus: "Bhikkhus, these two extremes should not be followed by one gone forth (into the homeless life). What two? That which is this pursuit of sensual happiness in sense pleasures, which is low, vulgar, the way of the ordinary person, ignoble, not connected to the goal; and that which is this pursuit of self-mortification, which is painful, ignoble, not connected to the goal. Bhikkhus, without veering towards either of these two extremes, the One Attuned to Reality has awakened to the middle way, which gives rise to vision, which gives rise to knowledge, which leads to peace, to higher knowledge, to full awakening, to Nibbāna.

"And what, bhikkhus, is that middle way awakened to by the One Attuned to Reality which gives rise to vision, which gives rise to knowledge, which leads to peace, to higher knowledge, to full awakening, to Nibbāna? It is just this Noble Eight-factored Path, that is to say, right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right mental unification. This, bhikkhus, is that middle way awakened to by the One Attuned to Reality, which gives rise to vision, which gives rise to knowledge, which leads to peace, to higher knowledge, to full awakening, to Nibbāna.

"Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the true reality which is pain: birth is painful, aging is painful, illness is painful, death is painful; sorrow, lamentation, physical pain, unhappiness and distress are painful; union with what is disliked is painful; separation from what is liked is painful; not to get what one wants is painful; in brief, the five bundles of grasping-fuel are painful.

"Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the pain-originating true reality. It is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and attachment, seeking delight now here now there; that is, craving for sense-pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination (of what is not liked).

"Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the pain-ceasing true reality. It is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, non-reliance on it.

"Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the true reality which is the way leading to the cessation of pain. It is this Noble Eight-factored Path, that is to say, right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right mental unification.

"'This, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the true reality of pain': in me, bhikkhus, in regard to things unheard before, there arose vision, knowledge, wisdom, true knowledge, and light.

"Now on this, 'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the true reality of pain — is to be fully understood': in me, bhikkhus, in regard to things unheard before, there arose vision, knowledge, wisdom, true knowledge, and light.

"Now on this, 'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the true reality of pain — has been fully understood': in me, bhikkhus, in regard to things unheard before, there arose vision, knowledge, wisdom, true knowledge, and light.

"(Likewise,) in me, bhikkhus, in regard to things unheard before, there arose vision, knowledge, wisdom, true knowledge and light, with respect to: 'This, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the pain-originating true reality,' 'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the pain-originating true reality — is to be abandoned,' and 'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the pain-originating true reality — has been abandoned.'

"(Likewise,) in me, bhikkhus, in regard to things unheard before, there arose vision, knowledge, wisdom, true knowledge and light, with respect to: 'This, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the pain-ceasing true reality,' 'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the pain-ceasing true reality — is to be personally experienced' and 'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the pain-ceasing true reality — has been personally experienced.'

"(Likewise,) in me, bhikkhus, in regard to things unheard before, there arose vision, knowledge, wisdom, true knowledge and light, with respect to: 'This, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the true reality which is the way leading to the cessation of pain,' 'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the true reality which is the way leading to the cessation of pain — is to be developed,' and 'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the true reality which is way leading to the cessation of pain — has been developed.'

"So long, bhikkhus, as my knowledge and seeing of these four true realities for the spiritually ennobled ones, as they really are in their three phases (each) and twelve modes (altogether) was not thoroughly purified in this way, then so long, in the world with its devas, māras and brahmās, in this population with its renunciants and brahmans, its devas and humans, I did not claim to be fully awakened to the unsurpassed perfect awakening. But when, bhikkhus, my knowledge and vision of these four true realities for the spiritually ennobled ones, as they really are in their three phases and twelve modes was thoroughly purified in this way, then, in the world with its devas, māras and brahmās, in this population with its renunciants and brahmans, its devas and humans, I claimed to be fully awakened to the unsurpassed perfect awakening. Indeed, knowledge and seeing arose in me: 'Unshakeable is the liberation of my mind; this is my last birth: now there is no more renewed existence.'"

This is what the Blessed One said. Elated, the bhikkhus of the group of five delighted in the Blessed One's statement. And while this explanation was being spoken, there arose in the venerable Koṇḍañña the dust-free, stainless vision of the Basic Pattern: "whatever is patterned with an origination, all that is patterned with a cessation."

And when the Wheel (of Vision) of the Basic Pattern (of things) had been set in motion by the Blessed One, the earth-dwelling devas raised a cry: "At Bārāṇasī, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the unsurpassed Wheel (of Vision) of the Basic Pattern (of things) has been set in motion by the Blessed One, which cannot be stopped by any renunciant or brahman or māra or brahmā or by anyone in the world." Having heard the cry of the earth-dwelling devas, the devas of the Four Great Kings raised the same cry. Having heard it, the Thirty-three devas took it up, then the Yāma devas, then the Contented devas, then the devas Who Delight in Creating, then the devas Who Delight in the Creations of Others, and then the devas of the brahmā group.

Thus at that moment, at that instant, at that second, the cry spread as far as the brahmā world, and this ten thousandfold world system shook, quaked, and trembled, and an immeasurable glorious radiance appeared in the world, surpassing the divine majesty of the devas.

Then the Blessed One uttered this inspiring utterance: "the honorable Koṇḍañña has indeed understood! The honorable Koṇḍañña has indeed understood! In this way, the venerable Koṇḍañña acquired the name Koṇḍañña Who Has Understood.
And Sariputta & Moggalana...

Mv 1.23.1-10: Upatissa-pasine
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ven. Assaji gave this Dhamma exposition to Sariputta the Wanderer:

Whatever phenomena arise from cause:
their cause
& their cessation.
Such is the teaching of the Tathagata,
the Great Contemplative.
Then to Sariputta the wanderer, as he heard this Dhamma exposition, there arose the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye: "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation."


Even if just this is the Dhamma,
you have penetrated
to the Sorrowless (asoka) State
unseen, overlooked (by us)
for many myriads of aeons.
Then Sariputta the wanderer went to Moggallana the wanderer. Moggallana the wanderer saw him coming from afar and, on seeing him, said, "Bright are your faculties, my friend; pure your complexion, and clear. Could it be that you have attained the Deathless?"

"Yes, my friend, I have attained the Deathless. "

"But how, friend, did you attain the Deathless?"

"Just now, friend, I saw Ven. Assaji going for alms in Rajagaha: gracious in the way he approached and departed, looked forward and behind, drew in and stretched out his arm; his eyes downcast, his every movement consummate. On seeing him, the thought occurred to me: 'Surely, of those in this world who are arahants or have entered the path to arahantship, this is one. What if I were to approach him and question him: "On whose account have you gone forth? Or who is your teacher? Or in whose Dhamma do you delight?"'

"But then the thought occurred to me: 'This is the wrong time to question him. He is going for alms in the town. What if I were to follow behind this monk who has found the path for those who seek it?'

"Then Ven. Assaji, having gone for alms in Rajagaha, left, taking his alms. I approached him and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, I stood to one side. As I was standing there I said, 'Bright are your faculties, my friend; pure your complexion, and clear.' On whose account have you gone forth? Or who is your teacher? Or in whose Dhamma do you delight?'

"'There is, my friend, the Great Contemplative, a son of the Sakyans, gone forth from a Sakyan family. I have gone forth on account of that Blessed One. That Blessed One is my teacher. And it is in that Blessed One's Dhamma that I delight.'

"'But what is your teacher's teaching? What does he proclaim?'

"'I am new, my friend, not long gone forth, only recently come to this Dhamma & Discipline. I cannot explain the doctrine to you in detail, but I will tell you the gist in brief.'


"'Speak a little or a lot,
but tell me just the gist.
The gist is what I want.
What use is a lot of verbosity?'
"Then Ven. Assaji gave me this Dhamma exposition:


"'Whatever phenomena arise from cause:
their cause
and their cessation.
Such is the teaching of the Tathagata,
the Great Contemplative.'"
Then to Moggallana the wanderer, as he heard this Dhamma exposition, there arose the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye: Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation.


Even if just this is the Dhamma,
you have penetrated
to the Sorrowless (asoka) State
unseen, overlooked (by us)
for many myriads of aeons.
More to come...

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:46 am

Greetings,

Upali the Householder...

MN 56: Upali Sutta
http://www.dhammaweb.net/Tipitaka/read.php?id=90" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the Blessed One gave the householder Upali the gradual Teaching starting with giving gifts, becoming virtuous, about the heavenly states, the dangers of sensuality, the vileness of defiling things, and benefits of giving up. Then the Blessed One knew that the mind of the householder Upali was ready, malleable, free of hindrances, lofty and pleased and the Blessed One gave the special message of the Enlightened Ones: Unpleasantness, its arising, its cessation and the path to the cessation of unpleasantness. Like a pure, clean cloth would take a dye evenly. In that same manner, the dustless, stainless eye of the Teaching arose to the householder Upali, seated there itself. Whatever rises has the nature of ceasing. The householder Upaali, then and there mastered that Teaching, knew and penetrated it. Doubts dispelled become self confident attained that state where he did not want a teacher, any more, in the Dispensation of the Blessed One


Suppabuddha...

Ud 5.3: Kutthi Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#gradual" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Then the Blessed One, having encompassed the awareness of the entire assembly with his awareness, asked himself, "Now who here is capable of understanding the Dhamma?" He saw Suppabuddha the leper sitting in the assembly, and on seeing him the thought occurred to him, "This person here is capable of understanding the Dhamma." So, aiming at Suppabuddha the leper, he gave a step-by-step talk, i.e., a talk on giving, a talk on virtue, a talk on heaven; he declared the drawbacks, degradation, & corruption of sensual passions, and the rewards of renunciation. Then when he saw that Suppabuddha the leper's mind was ready, malleable, free from hindrances, elated, & bright, he then gave the Dhamma-talk peculiar to Awakened Ones, i.e., stress, origination, cessation, & path. And just as a clean cloth, free of stains, would properly absorb a dye, in the same way, as Suppabuddha the leper was sitting in that very seat, the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye arose within him, "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation."
Many thousands of devas...

MN 147: Cula Rahulovada Sutta
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?tit ... vada_Sutta" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Now at that time, many thousands of devas were following behind the Blessed One, [thinking,] "Today the Blessed One will lead Ven. Rahula further to the ending of the mental fermentations."
Then the Blessed One, having plunged into the Grove of the Blind, sat down on a seat made ready at the foot of a tree. Ven. Rahula, having bowed down to the Blessed One, sat to one side.
As he was sitting there, the Blessed One said to him, "What do you think, Rahula — is the eye constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord."
"And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"
"Stressful, lord."
"And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"What do you think — are forms constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord."
"And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"
"Stressful, lord."
"And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"What do you think — is consciousness at the eye constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord."
"And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"
"Stressful, lord."
"And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"What do you think — is contact at the eye constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord."
"And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"
"Stressful, lord."
"And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"What do you think — whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye as a mode of feeling, a mode of perception, a mode of fabrication, or a mode of consciousness:[1] Is it constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord."
"And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"
"Stressful, lord."
"And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"What do you think, Rahula — is the ear constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord" ...
"What do you think, Rahula — is the nose constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord" ...
"What do you think, Rahula — is the tongue constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord" ...
"What do you think, Rahula — is the body constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord" ...
"What do you think, Rahula — is the intellect constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord."
"And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"
"Stressful, lord."
"And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"What do you think — are ideas constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord."
"And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"
"Stressful, lord."
"And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"What do you think — is consciousness at the intellect constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord."
"And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"
"Stressful, lord."
"And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"What do you think — is contact at the intellect constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord."
"And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"
"Stressful, lord."
"And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"What do you think — whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect as a mode of feeling, a mode of perception, a mode of fabrication, or a mode of consciousness: Is it constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord."
"And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"
"Stressful, lord."
"And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"Seeing thus, Rahula, the instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with the eye, disenchanted with forms, disenchanted with consciousness at the eye, disenchanted with contact at the eye. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye as a mode of feeling, a mode of perception, a mode of fabrication, or a mode of consciousness: With that, too, he grows disenchanted.
"He grows disenchanted with the ear...
"He grows disenchanted with the nose...
"He grows disenchanted with the tongue...
"He grows disenchanted with the body...
"He grows disenchanted with the intellect, disenchanted with ideas, disenchanted with consciousness at the intellect, disenchanted with contact at the intellect. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect as a mode of feeling, a mode of perception, a mode of fabrication, or a mode of consciousness: With that, too, he grows disenchanted. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is depleted, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Ven. Rahula delighted in the Blessed One's words. And while this explanation was being given, Ven. Rahula's mind, through no clinging (not being sustained), was fully released from fermentations. And to those many thousands of devas there arose the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye: "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation."
Eighty-four thousand people...

DN 14 Mahāpadāna Sutta
http://palicanon.org/en/sutta-pitaka/tr ... neage.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And a great crowd of eighty-four thousand people from Bandhumatī heard that the Lord Buddha Vipassī was staying in the deer-park of Khema, and that Khaṇḍa and Tissa had shaved off their hair and beards, donned yellow robes, and gone forth from the household life into homelessness. And they thought: "This is certainly no common teaching and discipline,..for which Prince Khaṇḍa and Tissa the chaplain's son have gone forth into homelessness. If they can do this in the presence of the Lord Buddha Vipassī, why should not we?" And so this great crowd of eighty-four thousand left Bandhumatī for the deer-park of Khema where the Lord Buddha [43] Vipassī was. When they came to him they made obeisance to him and sat down to one side.
3.15. 'And the Lord Buddha Vipassī delivered to them a graduated discourse on generosity, on morality, and on heaven, showing the danger, degradation and corruption of sense-desires, and the profit of renunciation. And just as a clean cloth... receives the dye perfectly, so in those eighty-four thousand, as they sat there, there arose the pure and spotless Dhamma-eye, and they knew: "Whatever things have an origin must come to cessation."
Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:06 am

Greetings,

A certain monk...

SN 34:8
http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2S ... ggo-e.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1. It occurred in Sāvatthi.

2. Then a certain monk approached the Blessed One. Repeat.

3. Sitting on a side that monk said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, in the monastery of such name there is a certain novice who is gravely ill. He knows very little. Good if the Blessed One would approach him out of compassion.”

4. The Blessed One hearing that he is an ailing novice and that he does not know much, approached that monk.

5. That monk seeing the Blessed One approaching in the distance, moved in his bed to get down.

6. The Blessed One said to that monk: “Monk, do not get down from the bed, there are seats prepared, I will sit,” and the Blessed One sat on a prepared seat.

7. Sitting, the Blessed One said to that monk: “Monk, are you all right, and are you enduring well? Are unpleasant feelings decreasing and not going beyond? Is the decreasing end or the increasing end that is evident?” “Venerable sir, I am not all right, and not enduring, my unpleasant feelings are increasing not decreasing, it is the increasing end and not the decreasing end that is evident.”

8. “Monk, do you have any doubts or remorse?”

“Venerable sir, many are my doubts and I have remorse.”

9. “Do you have any remorse about your virtues?”

“No venerable sir, I have no doubts about my virtues.”

10. “Monk, since you have no blames about your virtues, on account of what do you have doubts and remorse?”

“Venerable sir, I do not know the essence of the Teaching of the Blessed One about the purity of virtues.”

11. “Monk, you do not know the essence of my Teaching in the purity of virtues. Then what essence do you know of my Teaching?”

“Venerable sir, I know the essence of the Teaching of the Blessed One for the dispelling of greed.”

12. “Excellent! Monk, you know the essence of my Teaching for the dispelling of greed. Monk, it is for the dispelling of greed, that I teach.”

13. “Monk, is the eye permanent or impermanent?” “Venerable sir, it is impermanent.”

“Monk, is the ear, nose, tongue, and body, permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent venerable sir.”

“Monk, is the mind permanent or impermanent?” “Venerable sir, it is impermanent.”

“Those impermanent things are they unpleasant or pleasant?” “Venerable sir, they are unpleasant.”

“Those impermanent, unpleasant, changing things are they suitable to be considered, are mine, I am there, they're my self?” “That is not so, venerable sir.”

14. “Monk, the learned, noble disciple seeing it thus turns from the eye, ear nose, tongue, body, and mind. Turning loses interest. Losing interest is released. Released knowledge arises to him, I am released, birth is destroyed, the holy life is lived to the end, duties are done, I have nothing more to wish.”

15. The Blessed One said thus, that monk delighted in the words of the Blessed One. When this disposition was given the stainless eye of the Teaching, `whatever rises, is of the nature of ceasing' arose to that monk.
Sakka + 80,000 devas...

DN 21: Sakka-pañha Sutta
http://www.vipassana.com/canon/digha/dn21.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Having been given leave by the Blessed One, Sakka the deva-king asked him his first question: "Fettered with what, dear sir -- though they think, 'May we live free from hostility, free from violence, free from rivalry, free from ill will, free from those who are hostile' -- do devas, human beings, asuras, nagas, gandhabbas, & whatever other many kinds of beings there are, nevertheless live in hostility, violence, rivalry, ill will, with those who are hostile?"

Thus Sakka asked his first question of the Blessed One, and the Blessed One, when asked, replied: "Devas, human beings, asuras, nagas, gandhabbas, & whatever other many kinds of beings there are, are fettered with envy & stinginess, which is why -- even though they think, 'May we live free from hostility, free from violence, free from rivalry, free from ill will, free from those who are hostile -- they nevertheless live in hostility, violence, rivalry, ill will, with those who are hostile."

Thus the Blessed One answered, having been asked by Sakka the deva-king. Gratified, Sakka was delighted in & expressed his approval of the Blessed One's words: "So it is, O Blessed One. So it is, O One Well-gone. Hearing the Blessed One's answer to my question, my doubt is now cut off, my perplexity is overcome."

Then Sakka, having delighted in & expressed his approval of the Blessed One's words, asked him a further question: "But what, dear sir, is the cause of envy & stinginess, what is their origination, what gives them birth, what is their source? When what exists do they come into being? When what doesn't exist do they not?"

"Envy & stinginess have dear-&-not-dear as their cause, have dear-&-not-dear as their origination, have dear-&-not-dear as what gives them birth, have dear-&-not-dear as their source. When dear-&-not-dear exist, they come into being. When dear-&-not-dear are not, they don't."

"But what, dear sir, is the cause of dear-&-not-dear, what is their origination, what gives them birth, what is their source? When what exists do they come into being? When what doesn't exist do they not?"

"Dear-&-not-dear have desire as their cause, have desire as their origination, have desire as what gives them birth, have desire as their source. When desire exists, they come into being. When desire is not, they don't."

"But what, dear sir, is the cause of desire, what is its origination, what gives it birth, what is its source? When what exists does it come into being? When what doesn't exist does it not?"

"Desire has thinking as its cause, has thinking as its origination, has thinking as what gives it birth, has thinking as its source. When thinking exists, desire comes into being. When thinking is not, it doesn't."

"But what, dear sir, is the cause of thinking, what is its origination, what gives it birth, what is its source? When what exists does it come into being? When what doesn't exist does it not?"

"Thinking has the perceptions & categories of complication[1] as its cause, has the perceptions & categories of complication as its origination, has the perceptions & categories of complication as what gives it birth, has the perceptions & categories of complication as its source. When the perceptions & categories of complication exists, thinking comes into being. When the perceptions & categories of complication are not, it doesn't."

"And how has he practiced, dear sir: the monk who has practiced the practice leading to the right cessation of the perceptions & categories of complication?"

"Joy is of two sorts, I tell you, deva-king: to be pursued & not to be pursued. Grief is of two sorts: to be pursued & not to be pursued. Equanimity is of two sorts: to be pursued & not to be pursued.

"'Joy is of two sorts, I tell you, deva-king: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? When one knows of a feeling of joy, 'As I pursue this joy, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,' that sort of joy is not to be pursued. When one knows of a feeling of joy, 'As I pursue this joy, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase,' that sort of joy is to be pursued. And this sort of joy may be accompanied by directed thought & evaluation or free of directed thought & evaluation. Of the two, the latter is the more refined. 'Joy is of two sorts, I tell you, deva-king: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

"'Grief is of two sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? When one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this grief, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,' that sort of grief is not to be pursued. When one knows of a feeling of grief, 'As I pursue this grief, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase,' that sort of grief is to be pursued. And this sort of grief may be accompanied by directed thought & evaluation or free of directed thought & evaluation. Of the two, the latter is the more refined. 'Grief is of two sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

"'Equanimity is of two sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? When one knows of a feeling of equanimity, 'As I pursue this equanimity, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,' that sort of equanimity is not to be pursued. When one knows of a feeling of equanimity, 'As I pursue this equanimity, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase,' that sort of equanimity is to be pursued. And this sort of equanimity may be accompanied by directed thought & evaluation or free of directed thought & evaluation. Of the two, the latter is the more refined. 'Equanimity is of two sorts, I tell you: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

"This is how he has practiced, deva-king: the monk who has practiced the practice leading to the right cessation of the perceptions & categories of complication."

Thus the Blessed One answered, having been asked by Sakka the deva-king. Gratified, Sakka was delighted in & expressed his approval of the Blessed One's words: "So it is, O Blessed One. So it is, O One Well-gone. Hearing the Blessed One's answer to my question, my doubt is now cut off, my perplexity is overcome."

Then Sakka, having delighted in & expressed his approval of the Blessed One's words, asked him a further question: "But how has he practiced, dear sir: the monk who has practiced for restraint in the Patimokkha?"

"Bodily conduct is of two sorts, I tell you, deva-king: to be pursued & not to be pursued. Verbal conduct is of two sorts: to be pursued & not to be pursued. Searching is of two sorts: to be pursued & not to be pursued.

"'Bodily conduct is of two sorts, I tell you, deva-king: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? When one knows of bodily conduct, 'As I pursue this bodily conduct, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,' that sort of bodily conduct is not to be pursued. When one knows of bodily conduct, 'As I pursue this bodily conduct, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase,' that sort of bodily conduct is to be pursued. 'Bodily conduct is of two sorts, I tell you, deva-king: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

"'Verbal conduct is of two sorts, I tell you, deva-king: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? When one knows of verbal conduct, 'As I pursue this verbal conduct, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,' that sort of verbal conduct is not to be pursued. When one knows of verbal conduct, 'As I pursue this verbal conduct, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase,' that sort of verbal conduct is to be pursued. 'Verbal conduct is of two sorts, I tell you, deva-king: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

"'Searching is of two sorts, I tell you, deva-king: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to what was it said? When one knows of a search, 'As I pursue this search, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful mental qualities decline,' that sort of search is not to be pursued. When one knows of a search, 'As I pursue this search, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase,' that sort of search is to be pursued. 'Searching is of two sorts, I tell you, deva-king: to be pursued & not to be pursued.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

"This is how has he practiced, deva-king: the monk who has practiced the practice for restraint in the Patimokkha."

Thus the Blessed One answered, having been asked by Sakka the deva-king. Gratified, Sakka was delighted in & expressed his approval of the Blessed One's words: "So it is, O Blessed One. So it is, O One Well-gone. Hearing the Blessed One's answer to my question, my doubt is now cut off, my perplexity is overcome."

Then Sakka, having delighted in & expressed his approval of the Blessed One's words, asked him a further question: "But how has he practiced, dear sir: the monk who has practiced for restraint with regard to the sense faculties?"

"Forms cognizable by the eye are of two sorts, I tell you, deva-king: to be pursued & not to be pursued. Sounds cognizable by the ear .... Aromas cognizable by the nose .... Flavors cognizable by the tongue .... Tactile sensations cognizable by the body .... Ideas cognizable by the intellect are of two sorts: to be pursued & not to be pursued."

When this was said, Sakka the deva-king said to the Blessed One, "Dear sir, I understand the detailed meaning of the Blessed One's brief statement. If, as one pursues a certain type of form cognizable by the eye, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful mental qualities decline, that sort of form cognizable by the eye is not to be pursued. But if, as one pursues a certain type of form cognizable by the eye, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase, that sort of form cognizable by the eye is to be pursued.

"If, as one pursues a certain type of sound cognizable by the ear ....

"If, as one pursues a certain type of aroma cognizable by the nose ....

"If, as one pursues a certain type of flavor cognizable by the tongue ....

"If, as one pursues a certain type of tactile sensation cognizable by the body ....

"If, as one pursues a certain type of idea cognizable by the intellect, unskillful mental qualities increase, and skillful mental qualities decline, that sort of idea cognizable by the intellect is not to be pursued. But if, as one pursues a certain type of idea cognizable by the intellect, unskillful mental qualities decline, and skillful mental qualities increase, that sort of idea cognizable by the intellect is to be pursued.

"This is how I understand the detailed meaning of the Blessed One's brief statement. Hearing the Blessed One's answer to my question, my doubt is now cut off, my perplexity is overcome."

Then Sakka, having delighted in & expressed his approval of the Blessed One's words, asked him a further question: "Dear sir, do all priests & contemplatives teach the same doctrine, adhere to the same precepts, desire the same thing, aim at the same goal?"

"No, deva-king, not all priests & contemplatives teach the same doctrine, adhere to the same precepts, desire the same thing, aim at the same goal."

"Why, dear sir, don't all priests & contemplatives teach the same doctrine, adhere to the same precepts, desire the same thing, aim at the same goal?"

"The world is made up of many properties, various properties. Because of the many & various properties in the world, then whichever property living beings get fixated on, they become entrenched & latch onto it, saying, 'Only this is true; anything else is worthless.' This is why not all priests & contemplatives teach the same doctrine, adhere to the same precepts, desire the same thing, aim at the same goal."

"But, dear sir, are all priests & contemplatives utterly complete, utterly free from bonds, followers of the utterly holy life, utterly consummate?"

"No, deva-king, not all priests & contemplatives are utterly complete, utterly free from bonds, followers of the utterly holy life, utterly consummate."

"But why, dear sir, are not all priests & contemplatives utterly complete, utterly free from bonds, followers of the utterly holy life, utterly consummate?"

"Those monks who are released through the total ending of craving are the ones who are utterly complete, utterly free from bonds, followers of the utterly holy life, utterly consummate. This is why not all priests & contemplatives are utterly complete, utterly free from bonds, followers of the utterly holy life, utterly consummate."

Thus the Blessed One answered, having been asked by Sakka the deva-king. Gratified, Sakka was delighted in & expressed his approval of the Blessed One's words: "So it is, O Blessed One. So it is, O One Well-gone. Hearing the Blessed One's answer to my question, my doubt is now cut off, my perplexity is overcome."

Then Sakka, having delighted in & expressed his approval of the Blessed One's words, said to him: "Obsession is a disease, obsession is a boil, obsession is an arrow. It seduces one, drawing one into this or that state of being, which is why one is reborn in high states & low. Whereas other outside priests & contemplatives gave me no chance to ask them these questions, the Blessed One has answered at length, so that he has removed the arrow of my uncertainty & perplexity."

"Deva-king, do you recall having asked other priests & contemplatives these questions?"

"Yes, lord, I recall having asked other priests & contemplatives these questions."

"If it's no inconvenience, could you tell me how they answered?"

"It's no inconvenience when sitting with the Blessed One or one who is like him."

"Then tell me, deva-king."

"Having gone to those whom I considered to be priests & contemplatives living in isolated dwellings in the wilderness, I asked them these questions. But when asked by me, they were at a loss. Being at a loss, they asked me in return, 'What is your name?'

"Being asked, I responded, 'I, dear sir, am Sakka, the deva-king.'

"So they questioned me further, 'But what kamma did you do to attain to this state?'

"So I taught them the Dhamma as far as I had heard & mastered it. And they were gratified with just this much: 'We have seen Sakka, the deva-king, and he has answered our questions!' So, instead of my becoming their disciple, they simply became mine. But I, lord, am the Blessed One's disciple, a stream-winner, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening."

"Deva-king, do you recall ever having previously experienced such happiness & joy?"

"Yes, lord, I do."

"And how do you recall ever having previously experienced such happiness & joy?"

"Once, lord, the devas & asuras were arrayed in battle. And in that battle the devas won, while the asuras lost. Having won the battle, as the victor in the battle, this thought occurred to me: 'Whatever has been the divine nourishment of the asuras, whatever has been the divine nourishment of the devas, the devas will now enjoy both of them.' But my attainment of happiness & joy of mine was in the sphere of violence & weapons. It didn't lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to direct knowledge to self-awakening, to Unbinding. But my attainment of happiness & joy on hearing the Blessed One's Dhamma is in the sphere of no violence, the sphere of no weapons. It leads to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to direct knowledge to self-awakening, to Unbinding." ....

Then Sakka, the deva-king, touched the earth with his hand and said three times, "Homage to the Worthy One, the Blessed One, the Rightly Self-awakened One! Homage to the Worthy One, the Blessed One, the Rightly Self-awakened One! Homage to the Worthy One, the Blessed One, the Rightly Self-awakened One!"

While this explanation was being given, there arose to Sakka the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye -- "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation" -- as it also did to [his following of] 80,000 other devas.

Such were the questions that the Blessed One answered at Sakka's bidding.
Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:14 am

Greetings,

Digha...

MN 74: Dīghanakha Sutta
"Now, Aggivessana, this body — endowed with form, composed of the four primary elements, born from mother & father, nourished with rice & porridge, subject to inconstancy, rubbing, pressing, dissolution, and dispersion — should be envisioned as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. In one who envisions the body as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self, any desire for the body, attraction to the body, following after the body is abandoned.

"There are these three kinds of feeling: a pleasant feeling, a painful feeling, and neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling. On the occasion when one feels a pleasant feeling, one does not feel either a painful feeling or a neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling. One feels only a pleasant feeling on that occasion. On the occasion when one feels a painful feeling, one does not feel either a pleasant feeling or a neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling. One feels only a painful feeling on that occasion. On the occasion when one feels a neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling feeling, one does not feel either a pleasant feeling or a painful feeling. One feels only a neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling on that occasion.

"A pleasant feeling is inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing. A painful feeling is also inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing. A neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling is also inconstant, fabricated, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to vanishing, fading, ceasing.

"Seeing this, an instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with pleasant feeling, disenchanted with painful feeling, disenchanted with neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling. Disenchanted, he grows dispassionate. From dispassion, he is released. With release, there is the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns, 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.' A monk whose mind is thus released does not take sides with anyone, does not dispute with anyone. He words things by means of what is said in the world but without grasping at it."

Now at that time Ven. Sariputta was sitting[2] behind the Blessed One, fanning him. The thought occurred to him, "Indeed, it seems that the Blessed One speaks to us of the abandoning of each of these mental qualities through direct knowledge.[3] Indeed, it seems that the One Well-gone speaks to us of the relinquishing of each of these mental qualities through direct knowledge."[4] As Ven. Sariputta was reflecting thus, his mind was released from fermentations through not-clinging. While in LongNails the wanderer there arose the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye: "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation."

Then LongNails the wanderer — having seen the Dhamma, having attained the Dhamma, having known the Dhamma, having fathomed the Dhamma, having crossed over and beyond uncertainty, having no more perplexity, having gained fearlessness, having becoming independent of others with regard to the Teacher's message — said to the Blessed One: "Magnificent, Master Gotama! Magnificent! Just as if he were to place upright what was overturned, to reveal what was hidden, to show the way to one who was lost, or to carry a lamp into the dark so that those with eyes could see forms, in the same way has Master Gotama — through many lines of reasoning — made the Dhamma clear. I go to Master Gotama for refuge, to the Dhamma, and to the Community of monks. May Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge, from this day forward, for life.
Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:18 am

Greetings friends,

:buddha1:

Does anyone have any thoughts in relation to instances of the arising of the Dhamma-eye presented above?

Are there any common themes to these instances of mental cultivation in the Sutta Pitaka that we are able to discern? Anything that might be useful for us in our attempts to progress in the Dhamma?

Does anyone have any more examples from the Sutta Pitaka they wish to share, of the arising of the Dhamma-eye?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by Zom » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:14 pm

Mahaanaama, if these great sal trees could distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken, I would proclaim these great sal trees to be Stream-Winners... bound for enlightenment
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-)

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by kirk5a » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:26 pm

“Monk, the learned, noble disciple seeing it thus turns from the eye, ear nose, tongue, body, and mind.

That is the interesting part to me. What more can be said about this "turns from.." ?
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So I suppose my question is, with the thorough investigation of eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind, is this "turning" rather automatic, as in something that will more or less "naturally" follow on? Or what else could be said about this turning? If we contemplate eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind, and wonder how to turn the mind away from those phenomena... does that simply mean we have to keep on contemplating impermanence of eye, ear, etc until we recognize how to turn the mind away from that?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by Zom » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:16 pm

So I suppose my question is, with the thorough investigation of eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind, is this "turning" rather automatic, as in something that will more or less "naturally" follow on? Or what else could be said about this turning? If we contemplate eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind, and wonder how to turn the mind away from those phenomena... does that simply mean we have to keep on contemplating impermanence of eye, ear, etc until we recognize how to turn the mind away from that?
Actually this is not the arising of Dhamma-Eye, but this is seeing of Nibbana. After this formula there comes the statement, that doing so he sees Nibbana, and when he saw it, then there will be 2 possible results: either Non-Returning or Arahantship :reading:

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by kirk5a » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:14 pm

Zom wrote: Actually this is not the arising of Dhamma-Eye, but this is seeing of Nibbana. After this formula there comes the statement, that doing so he sees Nibbana, and when he saw it, then there will be 2 possible results: either Non-Returning or Arahantship :reading:
Thanissaro Bhikkhu says the arising of the Dhamma-Eye entails a glimpse of the Unconditioned.
[TB]: Part of what makes the arising of the Dhamma eye such a powerful experience is that the realization that "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation" must follow on a glimpse of what stands in opposition to "all that is subject to origination," i.e., a glimpse of the Unconditioned — deathlessness.

[Immediately after attaining the stream] Sariputta the wanderer went to Moggallana the wanderer. Moggallana the wanderer saw him coming from afar and, on seeing him, said, "Your faculties are bright, my friend; your complexion pure & clear. Could it be that you have attained the Deathless?"

"Yes, my friend, I have..."

— Mv 1.23.5
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/stud ... ml#arising" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Elsewhere I have heard it said that the four Ariya levels correspond to how many times one sees Nibbana. Does anyone one know where there might be support for that?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by daverupa » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:36 pm

Is it the case that the arising of the Dhamma Eye need not necessarily correlate with the fruit, but with the path? In other words, perhaps the arising of the Dhamma Eye correlates with the shift from puthujjana to the "pre-stream-winning path-workers" of saddhanusari and dhammanusari:
SN 25.* - Okkanta-samyutta wrote:"One who has conviction & belief that these phenomena are this way is called a faith-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who, after pondering with a modicum of discernment, has accepted that these phenomena are this way is called a Dhamma-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who knows and sees that these phenomena are this way is called a stream-winner, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening."
Perhaps in exceptional cases, such as with Sariputta, it was a quick puthujjana --> *nusari --> sotapanna, while in other cases it was only puthujjana --> *nusari.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by Zom » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:48 pm

Thanissaro Bhikkhu says the arising of the Dhamma-Eye entails a glimpse of the Unconditioned.
I know. But I don't agree. There is only one argument to support his position - that is the story of Sariputta/Moggallana's attainment of Dhammacakku.
But in their case I see it to be an allegory, not direct seeing of Nibbana. No suttas in whole canon support the idea that stream-entry means "seeing nibbana". But they do support the idea, that direct seeing of nibbana = either arahantship or, at least, non-returning; and they do support the idea that "Dhammacakku" means the understanding of the conditionality and impermanence of the "All", but not seeing something that lies beyond "the All" (that is - nibbana). Also Dhammacakku means "arriving to the Right Views (ditthi) (!)" but not to "Right Knowledge (nyana)". Also Stream-Entry means "Stepping, entering onto the Noble Eightfold Path" - but not "Finishing this Path". One who stepped on the Path - is one who obtained 1st factor - Right Views. One who finished the Path - is one who obtained 9th factor - Right Knowledge (that is gaining nibbana).

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by Goedert » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:14 pm

Greetings,

The arise of dhamma-eye happens when a person have direct knowledge about one or more caracteristics of existence.

Thats the great point, direct knowledge or abstract knowledge? Both should walk side by side...

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by chownah » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:05 am

Zom wrote:
. No suttas in whole canon support the idea that stream-entry means "seeing nibbana". .
This may be true (or not) but I think this thread is for discussing the arising of the dhamma eye and not stream entry........if you think they are synonymous I think you should make a case for that....I think the purpose of this thread is to ask for discussion about what is the meaning or implication of the "arising of the dhamma eye"......and it seems that you are assuming a meaning for that when probably it would be better to discuss it rather than assume it.....but this is just my impression of things and I could be wrong about all of this..........seems that your approach would just turn this thead into a discussion of stream entry and if the OP had wanted that I think he would have just said that and not taken all the effort to collect and post the many references on the dhamma eye.
chownah

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by ground » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:04 am

retrofuturist wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts in relation to instances of the arising of the Dhamma-eye presented above?
The key statement seems to be "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation."

We all know this, right? Due to progress of science our knowledge based on observation of it is even far more subtle than the knowledge of contemporaries of the Buddha could be. But based on this knowing there doesn't seem to necessarily follow "the arising of the Dhamma-eye". Far from it the basic human motivation seems to be colored by "intended origination", i.e.fabrication and intentionally applying means as alleged "causes of attainments" which according to this statement necessarily are subject to cessation.
All experience is subject to origination and therefore subject to cessation.

"Seeing thus, Rahula, the instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with the eye, disenchanted with forms, disenchanted with consciousness at the eye, disenchanted with contact at the eye. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye as a mode of feeling, a mode of perception, a mode of fabrication, or a mode of consciousness: With that, too, he grows disenchanted.
"He grows disenchanted with the ear...
"He grows disenchanted with the nose...
"He grows disenchanted with the tongue...
"He grows disenchanted with the body...
"He grows disenchanted with the intellect, disenchanted with ideas, disenchanted with consciousness at the intellect, disenchanted with contact at the intellect. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect as a mode of feeling, a mode of perception, a mode of fabrication, or a mode of consciousness: With that, too, he grows disenchanted. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released.

Kind regards

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Re: The arising of the Dhamma-eye

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:43 am

Greetings,

:goodpost:

Well said, TMingyur.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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