FLT: Full Lotus Turtle - A comprehensive guide to sitting meditation postures

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: FLT: Full Lotus Turtle - A comprehensive guide to sitting meditation postures

Post by frank k »

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... ound.html

video samples of stretches you can do from full lotus, or any cross leg posture
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages

User avatar
b0dhimind
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:46 pm
Location: California, USA
Contact:

Re: FLT: Full Lotus Turtle - A comprehensive guide to sitting meditation postures

Post by b0dhimind »

Thank you Frank for all your notes and explanations.

My right knee is half an inch from the floor during full lotus... like the images of the ladies in the OP. When sitting on a 2-3" cushion, my right knee is stable.
I stretched my way from sitting in half lotus to full lotus for 10min to now full lotus 40min over the years.

So in the development process, the whole pressure on the knees thing is unavoidable, right? Seems a catch-22 to say that putting pressure on the knees is improper/harmful... because we have to kind of endure this and learn to relax the hip joints gradually, right?

I think it would be reasonable to make some sessions without cushion and practice dropping the hip (20min say) and most session with a cushion.

Or are you saying that always sit on as big a cushion as needed and do stretches to open up the hips until you do not have to resort to any pressure on knees whatsoever?

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 7894
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: FLT: Full Lotus Turtle - A comprehensive guide to sitting meditation postures

Post by DooDoot »

Volo wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:25 pm
will lead to serious health problems
Physiotherapy theory says distortions of hip-flexor muscles can lead to distortions in the diaphragm and thus the breathing mechanism. I imagine distortion of the sacrum by say pulling it too far forward in lotus could also cause many general problems.
There is a connection between the main breathing muscle, the diaphragm, to the hip flexor muscle, the psoas. Both of these essential muscles have a mutual attachment, the front of your lumbar spine. When these muscle fibers are not able to “play nice” and glide freely, dysfunction can manifest as restricted breathing on the side of the hip pain or tightness. And so, the cycle of muscular tightness and pain continues as the body creeps further into the pattern of restricted breathing.

https://bodygears.com/diaphragmatic-breathing-hip-pain/
:candle:
Volo wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:46 am
I will share some thoughts on what I mean by "correct lotus". The lotus posture should mainly be done by the hip joint. If you would grasp your fist with the other hand it would resemble the hip joint. This structure allows it to rotate in all directions. During the lotus it should rotate on its axis. But for most people it's difficult, because the muscles there are very strong. Therefore due to the lack of flexibility there they will do lotus mainly by the knee joint, which however is designed to move back and forth and only little bit to left and right. In the incorrect lotus posture the pressure on the knee joint pushes it to move to the side. This would cause problems if you sit in it long enough.
The above sounds very important.
Last edited by DooDoot on Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 7894
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: FLT: Full Lotus Turtle - A comprehensive guide to sitting meditation postures

Post by DooDoot »

In Thailand, most meditation monks don't always sit in full lotus. One monk below appears to have a partial full lotus.
Attachments
Sitting Ajahn Mun.jpg
Sitting Ajahn Poh.jpg
Sitting Buddhadasa.jpg
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 7894
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: FLT: Full Lotus Turtle - A comprehensive guide to sitting meditation postures

Post by DooDoot »

Attachments
Sitting Ajahn Chah.jpg
Sitting Maha Boowa.png
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 7894
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: FLT: Full Lotus Turtle - A comprehensive guide to sitting meditation postures

Post by DooDoot »

:meditate:
Attachments
Sitting Ajahn Lee.jpg
Sitting Ajahn Lee 2.jpg
Sitting Ajahn Lee 2.jpg (5.99 KiB) Viewed 241 times
Sitting Dtun.jpg
Sitting Dtun.jpg (11.88 KiB) Viewed 241 times
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

User avatar
frank k
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: FLT: Full Lotus Turtle - A comprehensive guide to sitting meditation postures

Post by frank k »

Hi Bodhimind, (and others who asked me questions that I haven't responded to)
I'm happy to help out and answer the types of questions like you ask below. Problem with Dhammawheel forum software is that if you don't use quoted reply (like I'm doing with yours now), then I don't get a notification flag and it's very possible I never see your post at all, especially on a board that's active and fills up with new topics.

Link contains other ways to communicate with me:
http://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/p/ ... ters.html

To answer your question, yes, there may be some catch 22. The important point is you're doing things carefully, gradually, and not having pain.
As far as cushion height, it's not just about knees and hips, it's really important to be able to have a relaxed spine with natural s-shape.

this is a really important topic and worth reading and re-reading carefully from time to time: (for all meditators )
http://lucid24.org/sted/16aps/uju/index.html


b0dhimind wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:13 am
Thank you Frank for all your notes and explanations.

My right knee is half an inch from the floor during full lotus... like the images of the ladies in the OP. When sitting on a 2-3" cushion, my right knee is stable.
I stretched my way from sitting in half lotus to full lotus for 10min to now full lotus 40min over the years.

So in the development process, the whole pressure on the knees thing is unavoidable, right? Seems a catch-22 to say that putting pressure on the knees is improper/harmful... because we have to kind of endure this and learn to relax the hip joints gradually, right?

I think it would be reasonable to make some sessions without cushion and practice dropping the hip (20min say) and most session with a cushion.

Or are you saying that always sit on as big a cushion as needed and do stretches to open up the hips until you do not have to resort to any pressure on knees whatsoever?
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages

Post Reply