How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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asker
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How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

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How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

I am trying to evoke the feelings of loving-kindness while going into deep theta delta mode but not really achieving much success.
SarathW
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Re: How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

Post by SarathW »

Loving-kindness meditation is a Samatha practice.
You concentrate on loving-kindness.
This is to suppress your anger generally.
There is nothing specific called concentration meditation.
In Samatha (concentration) meditation, you chose a meditation object from the 40 objects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
befriend
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Re: How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

Post by befriend »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lionsr ... hanas/amp/ I am not sure if this is ok to do if you have a mental illness
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
asker
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Re: How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

Post by asker »

SarathW wrote: Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:22 pm Loving-kindness meditation is a Samatha practice.
You concentrate on loving-kindness.
This is to suppress your anger generally.
There is nothing specific called concentration meditation.
In Samatha (concentration) meditation, you chose a meditation object from the 40 objects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na
Hello SarathW, thank you for your teachings .. is it possible for me to reach the 4 Jhanas just by doing concentration samatha practice on loving-kindness? ..
SarathW
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Re: How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

Post by SarathW »

asker wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:16 am
SarathW wrote: Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:22 pm Loving-kindness meditation is a Samatha practice.
You concentrate on loving-kindness.
This is to suppress your anger generally.
There is nothing specific called concentration meditation.
In Samatha (concentration) meditation, you chose a meditation object from the 40 objects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na
Hello SarathW, thank you for your teachings .. is it possible for me to reach the 4 Jhanas just by doing concentration samatha practice on loving-kindness? ..
Yes, you can.
But a very knowledgeable monk from Sri Lanka said only the Yogis in a forest can attain that level of concentration.
For instance, I can't attain even the first Jhana yet.
However, this monk advises me to practice Vipassana and he said we have a better chance to attain some level of Nibbana at home.
So I practice Vipassana using walking method with some success.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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bazzaman
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Re: How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

Post by bazzaman »

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Last edited by bazzaman on Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bazzaman
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Re: How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

Post by bazzaman »

According to the Visuddhimagga (III 106 2) metta practice can lead to the first three jhanas; but not the fourth, which is characterised by equanimity. One can't be equanimous and loving at the same time.
It is thought by some samatha practioners that it is very difficult to develop strong concentration using metta as a subject unless one has previously developed concentration on another subject.
Atāṇo loko anabhissaro...

Yena yena hi maññanti tato taṃ hoti aññathā,
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Re: How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

Post by SteRo »

asker wrote: Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:59 pm How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

It is similar to arupa jhana / formless absorption meditation where the "object of concentration" actually is a theme since "object" usually implies "form".

you may start with form objects like "beings" but once the loving kindness arises from that you drop "beings" and focus/change to the theme of loving kindness, i.e. the experience of loving kindness and "concentrate" in it, i.e. don't move from that experience until non-conceptual absorption sets in.
There is the case where a monk keeps pervading the first direction[4] — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with good will. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing world with an awareness imbued with good will: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"That disciple of the noble ones, headman — thus devoid of covetousness, devoid of ill will, unbewildered, alert, mindful — keeps pervading the first direction [the east] with an awareness imbued with good will, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth. Thus above, below, & all around, everywhere, in its entirety, he keeps pervading the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, without hostility, without ill will. Just as a strong conch-trumpet blower can notify the four directions without any difficulty, in the same way, when the awareness-release through good will is thus developed, thus pursued, any deed done to a limited extent no longer remains there, no longer stays there.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... ml#brahma1
The habit to grasp as realities the concepts arising from contacting words seems to be deep-rooted.
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confusedlayman
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Re: How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

Post by confusedlayman »

do metta for people (start from urself, parents, frnds, brahma, devas, devas, brahma, frnds, parents, urself).. when doing metta have both metta feeling (arise from center of chest ) and thoughts (mental repeation let them acheive happiness and ease like that) then ur metta feeling will increase and when sufficient increase happens u focus ur attain on metta itself so now u dont think of anyone or thought but awareness of metta in chest will be there and keep focus without moving ur body.

its better to do in lying posture first and then sitting posture after mastery in lying posture.

in lying posutre if ur mind focus only on metta without moving ur body, the body awareness is lost and metta becomes jhanic piti and sukha.. u can go till 3rd where there is suckha of mental body (no perception of physical body) and when u come back to 1st and out of first but still body is immobilized then u can confirm it by moving ur conciousness back and froth or anywhere. its called malleable conciousness which can ivnestifate the truuth and gives u instant attainment but 4th jhana emerge has more powerful conciousness than 3rd jhana so till 3rd jhana u can do and atleast go to brahma world after u die. but aim for 4th jhana via breath meditation which i am practicing now.
I take refuge in 3 jewels that are most rare thing
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confusedlayman
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Re: How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

Post by confusedlayman »

bazzaman wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:55 pm According to the Visuddhimagga (III 106 2) metta practice can lead to the first three jhanas; but not the fourth, which is characterised by equanimity. One can't be equanimous and loving at the same time.
It is thought by some samatha practioners that it is very difficult to develop strong concentration using metta as a subject unless one has previously developed concentration on another subject.
very true it cant lead to 4th.

Metta is the easy way to attain jhana as it produce all positive feelings needed for jhana to arise.
I take refuge in 3 jewels that are most rare thing
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confusedlayman
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Re: How to Combine Loving-Kindness Meditation with Concentration Meditation?

Post by confusedlayman »

SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:37 am
asker wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:16 am
SarathW wrote: Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:22 pm Loving-kindness meditation is a Samatha practice.
You concentrate on loving-kindness.
This is to suppress your anger generally.
There is nothing specific called concentration meditation.
In Samatha (concentration) meditation, you chose a meditation object from the 40 objects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1% ... Dh%C4%81na
Hello SarathW, thank you for your teachings .. is it possible for me to reach the 4 Jhanas just by doing concentration samatha practice on loving-kindness? ..
Yes, you can.
But a very knowledgeable monk from Sri Lanka said only the Yogis in a forest can attain that level of concentration.
For instance, I can't attain even the first Jhana yet.
However, this monk advises me to practice Vipassana and he said we have a better chance to attain some level of Nibbana at home.
So I practice Vipassana using walking method with some success.
anyone can attain metta and in to jhana irrespective of if they in forest or urban city house or even layman with no buddhas teaching can attain. the criteria is he should be arouse metta and stabilize it and focus on metta without moving physical body. pls practise it and dont be discourgaed.
I take refuge in 3 jewels that are most rare thing
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