Sila samadhi Panna

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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befriend
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Sila samadhi Panna

Post by befriend » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:02 am

If one has good sila mentally verbally and physically will this lead to samadhi and then turn into vipassana?
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

SarathW
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Re: Sila samadhi Panna

Post by SarathW » Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:32 am

The way I understand Sila will naturally lead to Samadhi.
To lead Samadhi to Panna comes with previously hearing the Dhamma from Buddha or his disciples.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

paul
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Re: Sila samadhi Panna

Post by paul » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:25 am

The process of vipassana does not occur spontaneously by practising sila, it needs the willed intervention of right effort and right mindfulness to be activated. Serenity and insight are two separate themes in the NEP, one pertains to tranquility and the other to effort and samadhi is a necessary basis for the operation of insight, just as a surgery patient must be anaesthesized.

“The three divisions of the Noble Eightfold Path provide the check against this threefold layering of the defilements. The first, the training in moral discipline, restrains unwholesome bodily and verbal activity and thus prevents defilements from reaching the stage of transgression. The training in concentration provides the safeguard against the stage of manifestation. It removes already manifest defilements and protects the mind from their continued influx. But even though concentration may be pursued to the depths of full absorption, it cannot touch the basic source of affliction — the latent tendencies lying dormant in the mental continuum. Against these concentration is powerless, since to root them out calls for more than mental calm. What it calls for, beyond the composure and serenity of the unified mind, is wisdom (pañña), a penetrating vision of phenomena in their fundamental mode of being.”—-“The Noble Eightfold Path”, Bikkhu Bodhi.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Sila samadhi Panna

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:48 am

paul wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:25 am
... Serenity and insight are two separate themes in the NEP, one pertains to tranquility and the other to effort ...
Yes, and sila underpins serenity. It's hard to find serenity while you're dealing with the consequences of a poor lifestyle - worrying about your gambling debts, working two jobs to support your mistress as well as your wife, trying to sit through a hangover, or whatever.

:thinking:
Kim

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budo
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Re: Sila samadhi Panna

Post by budo » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:54 am

You cannot attain liberating insight if you cannot see the defilements, you cannot see the defilements if your mind is not calm (like waves and ripples in a pond, you cannot see through the pond), you cannot attain jhanas if you have the 5 hindrances, you cannot subdue the 5 hindrances if you do not have samma sila.

Therefore

Higher Virtue -> Higher Concentration -> Higher Wisdom

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Manopubbangama
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Re: Sila samadhi Panna

Post by Manopubbangama » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:28 pm

Jhànalàbhi (Jhana meditators) do not all necessarily attain Sotāpatti.

One should focus primarily on the goal of sotāpatti, which is more important than basically anything else in the universe.

In order for this to occur, sakkàya-ditthi must be uprooted.


https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn ... .than.html

Jhànalàbhi do not all practice the eithfold path, if they did, than the Jhànalàbhi that preceded and taught the Buddha would have been Buddhists.

Therefore, Sila-samadhi-paññā do not necessarily follow one another like falling dominoes.
Sabbe Sankhara Anicca - Sabbe Sankhara Dukkha - Sabbe Dhamma Anatta

rightviewftw
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Re: Sila samadhi Panna

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:23 am

befriend wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:02 am
If one has good sila mentally verbally and physically will this lead to samadhi and then turn into vipassana?
Id say yes
“Bhikkhus, for a virtuous person, one whose behavior is virtuous, no volition need be exerted: ‘Let non-regret arise in me.’ It is natural that non-regret arises in a virtuous person, one whose behavior is virtuous.
“For one without regret no volition need be exerted: ‘Let joy arise in me.’ It is natural that joy arises in one without regret.
In one who has joy, rapture arises. In one who has rapture, the body becomes serene. When the body is serene, one feels pleasure. Feeling pleasure, the mind becomes centered. When the mind is centered, phenomena become manifest.
IE;
if one is constantly performing skillful actions with the body, is restrained with the body and is mindful of the body
if one is constantly performing skillful actions with the mind, is restrained with the mind and is mindful of the mind
if one is constantly performing skillful actions with speech, is restrained with speech and is mindful of the speech

In this case i think it will lead to samadhi and seeing things as they really are but it is important to realize that in this case one would be essentially practicing comprehensively, thinking good thoughts of non-ill will, skillfully reflecting, thinking of the triple gem, always mindful of the body and mind, putting forth effort for the abandonment of the unskillful and increase of the skillful one would develop four frames of reference.

One who develops the frames of mindfulness is expected to develop five spiritual faculties; mindfulness, energy, discernment, faith and concentration.

By development of the five faculties there would be an increase of the five strengths; of conscientiousness, of concentration, of discernment, of conviction and of persistence.

Thus one would eventually fully cultivate the factors of awakening.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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DooDoot
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Re: Sila samadhi Panna

Post by DooDoot » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:35 am

befriend wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:02 am
If one has good sila mentally verbally and physically will this lead to samadhi and then turn into vipassana?
No. Samadhi cannot be developed without good sila however good sila does not guarantee samadhi. The development of samadhi requires the overcoming of the five hindrances, particularly the hindrances of sensual desire and doubt (which includes fear).

thepea
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Re: Sila samadhi Panna

Post by thepea » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:57 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:35 am
befriend wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:02 am
If one has good sila mentally verbally and physically will this lead to samadhi and then turn into vipassana?
No. Samadhi cannot be developed without good sila however good sila does not guarantee samadhi. The development of samadhi requires the overcoming of the five hindrances, particularly the hindrances of sensual desire and doubt (which includes fear).
Agree.

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