Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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mikenz66
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:08 pm

markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:13 pm
Hi Mike

Mike whats your problem, I wasn't talking about Thai Friends I said to get a clearer picture I would need to speak to the locals, where did I actually mention Thai friends i was talking about putting false ideas, concepts and words into peoples minds, cultures and language structure when they may not use exactly the same ideas. I am sure in Thailand they have some equivalents, but it may not have the exact same equivalent as whats normally translated.
...
I'm sorry you find my comments objectionable, and I don't believe that I have a problem.

I've no idea who you are, or what you know about various cultures. Perhaps you are an expert on some Asian cultures (you mention spending time in the Philippines and India) but from your comments you don't appear to be claiming any knowledge of Thai culture. I offered an example from Robert's experience, which is consistent with some of my experiences.

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Mike

paul
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by paul » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:13 pm

markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:47 pm
I lived in village in the Philippines for 6 years, and walked around villages and rural areas in India and rural people are bright happy, simple and very durable, these mind quacks need to spend more time with them if anything to sort out their mental issues not the other way around.
I am skeptic and I dont trust many things
The boys were assisted by meditation in surviving the cave experience, now they are considering temporary ordination due to the death of one of the Thai rescuers. Do you think Buddhism can be helpful?

markandeya
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by markandeya » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:28 pm

I was talking as a general rule on how most cultures get translated, and mostly how sacred esoteric profound states are given mundane and fearful translations, its not that superstitions dont exists they exist in all cultures but its man made ideas and largely misunderstood. I have met plenty of Thai people in my time and passed through and had short visits in Thailand, but mostly in transit, i would have liked to stay longer but at the times I went it was hard to find even simple vegetarian foods. I didnt want to say to much about their cultures in rural areas as it would be dishonest but I cant see how it would differ from most places in Asia, I would prefer to learn from true natives , this does not always mean general populations, its a very similar culture all over with slight variations and unique temperaments but there is a general ethos commonly shared, so certain truths can be applied in all places. In general the average person has never tried to study mind and its functions in any great depth so its largely an unknown phenomenon, mind is something that is universally connected within all of us,to think its a individual phenomenon is simple not true. Like in jungles with so called wild dangerous animals, they will never attack when mind is balanced and in union with the surroundings. There are sadhus in Himalayas and other remote areas that hand fears bears , snakes and leopards.

Preta hungry ghost as I understand is a state of being within the human, usually people with insatiable lust or greed that cant be satisfied by anything that they consume, part of the bhavachakra.

In the Philippines they have the same types of beliefs and usually village people do not like to go out at night,, its amazing when two or more people go for walks at night, one feels fear the other not, its all imaginary and superstitious it only exists as something in the mind, from the Thai forest tradition the monks would usually face these things and fears and find out they do not exists or they only exist within ones mind, if mind is balanced and tamed then they dont exist or harm so where is the reality of them. Mind and thoughts are very powerful. I have done solitary retreats in remote places before and its either an illusion of mind when mind cant handle silence and being alone and plays tricks on itself, when mind is calmed and concentrated and unafraid they dont exist.

Bhutas however do carry energy and information and are part of natural phenomenon but I would not call them ghosts or spirits, its a poor translation, it usually some imbalance in the energy fields, there are subtle connections between all of us.

My main issue was with the word ghost and translated in normal western terms and then that being applied to superstitions or false understanding of mind and phenomenon but more importantly of sacred places and esoteric forces as Ghosts or malefic and evil or dangerous forces or myths.

Go out face your mind and see that they dont exist when mind is balanced. Buta and subtle psychic phenomenon is misinterpreted very easily.
Last edited by markandeya on Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

markandeya
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by markandeya » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:28 pm

paul wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:13 pm
markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:47 pm
I lived in village in the Philippines for 6 years, and walked around villages and rural areas in India and rural people are bright happy, simple and very durable, these mind quacks need to spend more time with them if anything to sort out their mental issues not the other way around.
I am skeptic and I dont trust many things
The boys were assisted by meditation in surviving the cave experience, now they are considering temporary ordination due to the death of one of the Thai rescuers. Do you think Buddhism can be helpful?
i think that was main point Paul, now the rescue is over let them heal according to their own culture.

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mikenz66
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:32 pm

markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:28 pm
I didnt want to say to much about their cultures in rural areas as it would be dishonest but I cant see how it would differ from most places in Asia, ...
Thank you for your perspective. I'd just add that Asia is very diverse, so I would be very hesitant to generalise too much, otherwise you run the same risk of generalisation that you appear to be objecting to.

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Mike

SunWuKong
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by SunWuKong » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:40 pm

paul wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:13 pm
markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:47 pm
I lived in village in the Philippines for 6 years, and walked around villages and rural areas in India and rural people are bright happy, simple and very durable, these mind quacks need to spend more time with them if anything to sort out their mental issues not the other way around.
I am skeptic and I dont trust many things
The boys were assisted by meditation in surviving the cave experience, now they are considering temporary ordination due to the death of one of the Thai rescuers. Do you think Buddhism can be helpful?
I don't get news media here, but i saw the pictures on the internet. I see nothing wrong with practicing meditation while trapped in a cave. Probably the experience will NOT be traumatic because of this! Is the Buddha Dharma helpful? Ask these boys, I'm sure they will agree.

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mikenz66
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:50 pm

SunWuKong wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:40 pm
I don't get news media here, but i saw the pictures on the internet. I see nothing wrong with practicing meditation while trapped in a cave. Probably the experience will NOT be traumatic because of this! Is the Buddha Dharma helpful? Ask these boys, I'm sure they will agree.
You can see their interview here, with translation:


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Mike

markandeya
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by markandeya » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:07 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:32 pm
markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:28 pm
I didnt want to say to much about their cultures in rural areas as it would be dishonest but I cant see how it would differ from most places in Asia, ...
Thank you for your perspective. I'd just add that Asia is very diverse, so I would be very hesitant to generalise too much, otherwise you run the same risk of generalisation that you appear to be objecting to.

:heart:
Mike

slight variations and unique temperaments
To avoid over generalization

:anjali:

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mikenz66
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:31 pm

I wouldn't call is slight. That would be like saying that there are slight variations from the UK, across Europe, and into Russia...

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Mike

chownah
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by chownah » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:18 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:31 pm
I wouldn't call is slight. That would be like saying that there are slight variations from the UK, across Europe, and into Russia...

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Mike
Having spent many years living in a village in thailand I would say that thai people do not see cambodian, vietnamese, burmese, indian, or etc. as being slight variations of thai culture....nonononono....they see thai culture as being entirely unique.

As to the media and the kids.....it is the thai media which is clinging to this event by far the most....it is still a major topic with both rehashing of previous stuff and a sort of desperate search for some new angle to use to fill up to an hour of news reporting. Seems like western media has sort of let it pass mostly although I've heard that there are at least two movies planned....I wouldn't be surprised if one of them was thai produced but I don't follow it too close.

As to the meditation. My view is that if they did any kind of mindfulness meditation it would help them alot. Since they had an experienced ex monk with them it is possible that they actually did some theravada style meditation (has anyone heard just how they meditated?) although thais do have their own take on meditation and for many it is influenced by popular culture as meditation is sometimes part of the story line with the meditator being anyone from some super guru to some super villain. From what I have seen, all meditation is called samadhi by lay people....
chownah

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manas
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by manas » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:45 pm

Like so many around the world, I was relieved at the success of the rescue, and it's great to hear that the Coach was able to help them cope in the cave, using meditative techniques. However, since to my knowledge NO-ONE in the entire world will say this,WHAT WAS HE THINKING, bringing them in there in the first place? Just before the Monsoon, for goodness sake? Not very 'mindful' or 'clearly aware'. Prevention is always better than cure, when it comes to life-threatening situations.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

Alexander____
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Re: Boys in cave: the meditation perspective

Post by Alexander____ » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:35 am


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