masturbation what's wrong?

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mikenz66
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Re: self pleasure or drink?

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:12 pm

ihrjordan wrote:http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=117 "Once there was a thera by the name of Seyyasaka, who was in the habit of masturbating. When the Buddha heard about this, he rebuked the thera for doing something that would lead one farther away from the attainment of Magga and Phala. At the same time, the Buddha laid down the discipline prohibiting such indulgence in sexual pleasures, i.e., Samghadisesa Apatti, offences which require penance and suspension from the Order. Then, the Buddha added, "This kind of offence can only lead to evil results in this world as well as in the next." Again I still don't know why most of you are defending your stance to last breath, I feel like if I was arguing on a side that said you shouldn't drink alcohol and I didn't want to promote the use of alcohol as per his question you would agree with me but why is it it so different with masturbation?
Note that this statement is addressed to a Bhikkhu, who has taken on a life of renunciation. So it is an offence against the monastic rules.

:anjali:
Mike

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: self pleasure or drink?

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:40 pm

ihrjordan wrote:.... I feel like if I was arguing on a side that said you shouldn't drink alcohol and I didn't want to promote the use of alcohol as per his question you would agree with me but why is it it so different with masturbation?
One reason is because there is demonstrably a world of difference between indulging in Alcohol and masturbation.
The two simply defy comparison.
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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Mkoll
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Re: self pleasure or drink?

Post by Mkoll » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:10 pm

Reductor wrote:Anyway, I know you're meaning well, but you're also showing a lack of experience and consideration for your fellow dhamma practitioners by painting them as hobbiests and as lax simply because they approach this topic differently from you.
:goodpost:

I think you mean well too, Jordan. :hug:

~~~
mikenz66 wrote:
ihrjordan wrote:http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=117 "Once there was a thera by the name of Seyyasaka, who was in the habit of masturbating. When the Buddha heard about this, he rebuked the thera for doing something that would lead one farther away from the attainment of Magga and Phala. At the same time, the Buddha laid down the discipline prohibiting such indulgence in sexual pleasures, i.e., Samghadisesa Apatti, offences which require penance and suspension from the Order. Then, the Buddha added, "This kind of offence can only lead to evil results in this world as well as in the next." Again I still don't know why most of you are defending your stance to last breath, I feel like if I was arguing on a side that said you shouldn't drink alcohol and I didn't want to promote the use of alcohol as per his question you would agree with me but why is it it so different with masturbation?
Note that this statement is addressed to a Bhikkhu, who has taken on a life of renunciation. So it is an offence against the monastic rules.

:anjali:
Mike
Yes. The Buddha had much higher standards for his bhikkhus than his lay followers. Part of the reason I don't feel ready for a monastic life is because I feel I would be unworthy of the robe at this present juncture. It is one thing to not follow the Buddha's teachings as perfectly and ideally as possible as a householder. It is quite another to do that as a monk.; and much worse, I think.
Dhammapada wrote:307. There are many evil characters and uncontrolled men wearing the saffron robe. These wicked men will be born in states of woe because of their evil deeds.

308. It would be better to swallow a red-hot iron ball, blazing like fire, than as an immoral and uncontrolled monk to eat the alms of the people.

...

311. Just as kusa grass wrongly handled cuts the hand, even so, a recluse's life wrongly lived drags one to states of woe.

...

313. If anything is to be done, let one do it with sustained vigor. A lax monastic life stirs up the dust of passions all the more.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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ihrjordan
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Re: self pleasure or drink?

Post by ihrjordan » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:00 am

You know what? nevermind everyone. I didn't intend for this carry on like this, It's interfering with my practice at the moment and I wouldn't want it to interfere with yours. Whether I'm in the wrong or not it's not worth pushing my viewpoint anymore while causing unneeded stress and besides I didn't join Dhamma wheel to make enemies.
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"

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Dan74
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Re: self pleasure or drink?

Post by Dan74 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:23 am

ihrjordan wrote:You know what? nevermind everyone. I didn't intend for this carry on like this, It's interfering with my practice at the moment and I wouldn't want it to interfere with yours. Whether I'm in the wrong or not it's not worth pushing my viewpoint anymore while causing unneeded stress and besides I didn't join Dhamma wheel to make enemies.
Good idea to step away for a while.

I think everybody here has nothing but good will towards you, and you've not made any enemies. Arguments sometimes get a bit heated, that's all. Most of us have been on both sides, so it's no biggie.

Once you are cool with it, you might want to reread a few posts and see if you can find something useful for yourself - after all there are many experienced practitioners here who've faced the sort of stuff you're facing.

And whether you or me, every moment is an opportunity to practice.
_/|\_

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Re: self pleasure or drink?

Post by Reductor » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:06 am

ihrjordan wrote:You know what? nevermind everyone. I didn't intend for this carry on like this, It's interfering with my practice at the moment and I wouldn't want it to interfere with yours. Whether I'm in the wrong or not it's not worth pushing my viewpoint anymore while causing unneeded stress and besides I didn't join Dhamma wheel to make enemies.
This is practice, Jordan. If you didn't invest yourself so much in your view, you wouldn't have disparaged others, and wouldn't now feel uncomfortable.

And I mean you no ill-will or anything. I think your perspective on masturbation is important for others to hear. You may even be right. But you didn't allow that you may be wrong, and that's the trouble, as far as I can see.

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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:26 am

Since the self pleasure or drink? thread has pretty much runs it course, it has been merged with the catchall masturbation what's wrong? thread. The topic is still open for discussion. See the guidelines for this section: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20017
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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clw_uk
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by clw_uk » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:53 pm

I find it ironic that you tell me to respect others opinions but yet you're very critical of mine.. Like I said I'm not hating anyone for there opinion I just don't think it's right to promote what in my mind and similarly the Buddhas mind is an unwholesome act. And thank you for the grammar check at the end I'm sure that little line was done with utmost compassion.

Sexual desire is let go of gradually, however a vow of celibacy certainly helps this practice.


However insight can still be gained while living as a householder, even if one engages in sexual activity.
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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phil
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by phil » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:37 am

Dear all

I haven't written about masturbation for at least four years. Where does the time go? Down the drain, I say down the drain. Seriously, for any man (I can't speak for women's sexuality) wishing to maintain a celibate lifestyle, regularly scheduled masturbation I would say once a week is wise. As a fascinating exercise in how gross( vs.?refined) the pleasure of orgasm is try it without additional fantasizing just as a physical release for the body's health and to prevent built up lust just as defecation prevent other kinds of unhealthy buildups. Seems absolutely sensible.

I think the real danger is pornography, it's pornography that stirs up and defiles the mind and leads to unwise pre-occupations, not masturbation. And that can include sexual fantasies which are often just echoes of pornography. So look at the pornography/fantasies not the physical act of masturbation which is not that different from defecation. I haven't read the thread so I don't know if people are advocating that young men abstain completely from masturbation but if you are it's absolutely insane and irresponsible, in my opinion. prostate suffers, increases risk of cancer, lust builds up, Mara lurks eaiting for a chance to sell some pleasures which actually burn but seem great at the time because the mind has been allowed to sink in their direction. "Keep the mind upright, have a wank every fortnight." Quotation marks unnecessary since I just made it up.

Have a poop, have a wank, have a pee
and live life wholesomely.
Sing along with me
Have a poop have a wank have a pee

Phil
P.S do you know how the Buddha talked about eating to satisfy the body's needs and get rid of a bad feeling without creating a new feeling, the same could be said of masturbation.
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

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angryrika
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by angryrika » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:41 pm

phil wrote: Phil
P.S do you know how the Buddha talked about eating to satisfy the body's needs and get rid of a bad feeling without creating a new feeling, the same could be said of masturbation.
Masturbation is not a requisite!

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And what are the fermentations to be abandoned by using? There is the case where a monk, reflecting appropriately, uses the robe simply to counteract cold, to counteract heat, to counteract the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, & reptiles; simply for the purpose of covering the parts of the body that cause shame.

"Reflecting appropriately, he uses almsfood, not playfully, nor for intoxication, nor for putting on bulk, nor for beautification; but simply for the survival & continuance of this body, for ending its afflictions, for the support of the holy life, thinking, 'Thus will I destroy old feelings [of hunger] and not create new feelings [from overeating]. I will maintain myself, be blameless, & live in comfort.'

"Reflecting appropriately, he uses lodging simply to counteract cold, to counteract heat, to counteract the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, & reptiles; simply for protection from the inclemencies of weather and for the enjoyment of seclusion.

"Reflecting appropriately, he uses medicinal requisites that are used for curing the sick simply to counteract any pains of illness that have arisen and for maximum freedom from disease.

"The fermentations, vexation, or fever that would arise if he were not to use these things [in this way] do not arise for him when he uses them [in this way]. These are called the fermentations to be abandoned by using.
For a person tormented by evil thoughts, who is passion-dominated and given to the pursuit of pleasure, his craving steadily grows. He makes the fetter strong, indeed. He who delights in subduing evil thoughts, who meditates on the impurities and is ever mindful — it is he who will make an end of craving and rend asunder Mara's fetter.

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Pondera » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:16 am

The amount of pleasure released by one orgasm could be measured out in the course of an entire day. The problem with masturbation is that it impedes upon "genital mindfulness". Sex does the same thing. Watch out for march madness. It's a coming ;)
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:06 am

>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Aloka
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Aloka » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:09 am

Oh gawd, the masturbation thread has reared its head again.

.

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Dhammanando
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:25 am

From Wikipedia's entry for John Harvey Kellogg (inventor of the breakfast cereal Kellogg's cornflakes).
  • Views on Sexuality

    [...]

    He was an especially zealous campaigner against masturbation; this was an orthodox view during his lifetime, especially the earlier part. Kellogg was able to draw upon many medical sources' claims such as "neither the plague, nor war, nor small-pox, nor similar diseases, have produced results so disastrous to humanity as the pernicious habit of onanism," credited to one Dr. Adam Clarke. Kellogg strongly warned against the habit in his own words, claiming of masturbation-related deaths "such a victim literally dies by his own hand," among other condemnations. He felt that masturbation destroyed not only physical and mental health, but the moral health of individuals as well. Kellogg also believed the practice of this "solitary-vice" caused cancer of the womb, urinary diseases, nocturnal emissions, impotence, epilepsy, insanity, and mental and physical debility; "dimness of vision" was only briefly mentioned.

    Masturbation prevention

    Kellogg worked on the rehabilitation of masturbators, often employing extreme measures, even mutilation, on both sexes. He was an advocate of circumcising young boys to curb masturbation and applying phenol to a young woman's clitoris. In his Plain Facts for Old and Young, he wrote:

    “A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed.”

    [...]

    “Kellogg thought that masturbation was the worst evil one could commit; he often referred to it as "self-abuse". He was a leader of the anti-masturbation movement, and promoted extreme measures to prevent masturbation. In addition, Kellogg thought that diet played a huge role in masturbation and that a bland diet would decrease excitability and prevent masturbation. Thus, Kellogg invented Corn Flakes breakfast cereal in 1878. He hoped that feeding children this plain cereal every morning would help to combat the urges of "self-abuse".”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg

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Bundokji
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Bundokji » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:38 am

What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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