ihrjordan wrote:I'm not opposed to or "afraid" of sensuality as you say.
I didn't say you were. I set that idea aside with a --- mark, apart from your quote altogether.
All I'm saying is instead of indulging in the objects of your desire, try learning about them! You will come to see they do not bring you happiness and EVENTUALLY you will WANT to give them up naturally.
I'm very surprised that most of you are taking a stance on this that is similar to that of a modern counselor.... What most of you are saying is the same thing as when a counselor tells someone to "hit a pillow when you get angry" and I'm sure that most of us would agree that's not how one should handle a problem. So why is it any different with masturbation nevermind alcohol?
Just because something is natural doesn't mean it has it's place..
Again, this wasn't said, it's what you built up for yourself. I said that healthy human sexuality falls on a very broad spectrum of suitable social & private expressions. Activity in line with the Dhamma, while also on a spectrum from lay to monastic, is indeed that which inclines towards renunciation, and this also falls under the 'healthy' set.
here I was trying to promote the renunciate path without scaring him off by saying that it would be better to give up masurbation and stick with what society would call "normal sensuality" as a way of limiting yourself w/o driving yourself crazy by way of repression..
Indeed, the extremes of uhealthy repression and wanton indulgence are not helpful; seeing clearly for oneself is a primary concern, as we agree.
how is this an unwholesome act on my part again?
Again, this wasn't said.