masturbation what's wrong?

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Pondera
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Pondera »

The amount of pleasure released by one orgasm could be measured out in the course of an entire day. The problem with masturbation is that it impedes upon "genital mindfulness". Sex does the same thing. Watch out for march madness. It's a coming ;)
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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings »

>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Aloka
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Aloka »

Oh gawd, the masturbation thread has reared its head again.

.
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Dhammanando
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Dhammanando »

From Wikipedia's entry for John Harvey Kellogg (inventor of the breakfast cereal Kellogg's cornflakes).
  • Views on Sexuality

    [...]

    He was an especially zealous campaigner against masturbation; this was an orthodox view during his lifetime, especially the earlier part. Kellogg was able to draw upon many medical sources' claims such as "neither the plague, nor war, nor small-pox, nor similar diseases, have produced results so disastrous to humanity as the pernicious habit of onanism," credited to one Dr. Adam Clarke. Kellogg strongly warned against the habit in his own words, claiming of masturbation-related deaths "such a victim literally dies by his own hand," among other condemnations. He felt that masturbation destroyed not only physical and mental health, but the moral health of individuals as well. Kellogg also believed the practice of this "solitary-vice" caused cancer of the womb, urinary diseases, nocturnal emissions, impotence, epilepsy, insanity, and mental and physical debility; "dimness of vision" was only briefly mentioned.

    Masturbation prevention

    Kellogg worked on the rehabilitation of masturbators, often employing extreme measures, even mutilation, on both sexes. He was an advocate of circumcising young boys to curb masturbation and applying phenol to a young woman's clitoris. In his Plain Facts for Old and Young, he wrote:

    “A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed.”

    [...]

    “Kellogg thought that masturbation was the worst evil one could commit; he often referred to it as "self-abuse". He was a leader of the anti-masturbation movement, and promoted extreme measures to prevent masturbation. In addition, Kellogg thought that diet played a huge role in masturbation and that a bland diet would decrease excitability and prevent masturbation. Thus, Kellogg invented Corn Flakes breakfast cereal in 1878. He hoped that feeding children this plain cereal every morning would help to combat the urges of "self-abuse".”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg
Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
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Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
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Bundokji
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Bundokji »

What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Dhammanando
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Dhammanando »

Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.
Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.


“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings »

Dhammanando wrote:
Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.
Thank you. In this long and sometimes very silly thread, this is the most concise, reasonable, and Dhamma appropriate statement to date.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Bundokji
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Bundokji »

Dhammanando wrote:
Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.
Thanks Bhante :anjali:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Aloka
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Aloka »

tiltbillings wrote:Thank you. In this long and sometimes very silly thread, this is the most concise, reasonable, and Dhamma appropriate statement to date.
I totally agree.


:anjali:
DC2R
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by DC2R »

Dhammanando wrote:
Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.
End thread. :thumbsup:
Spiny Norman
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Spiny Norman »

DC2R wrote:End thread. :thumbsup:
That's a "relief". :tongue:
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Saoshun
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Saoshun »

Masturbation is lesser "evil" because it will let the poison out and shut down biological compulsion rather then seeking gratification by making yourself "different" and "unwholesome" towards women. Guys do dumb stuff when feel stirred up, going to chats, talking and provoking girls and then blame themselves for their behavior, that thing between legs can really make you problems you going to regret.

so if you feel you losing control just let poison out so you can be more sane. And just try to develop wisdom of seeing the body the way it is, to see this body as pus, bones, muscles, worms inside, small crawling things eating your skin, bacterias. It's only hormones who paint this bag of meat as desirable, if you have clear vision no human is desirable, generally we are all ugly no matter how much followers you have on instagram, if you look at your body sincerity and investigate it properly then desire naturally will fall off, but be aware if you start doing this investigation you will find libido sky rocketing like not ever before. sometimes I think nature knows what you are doing and will try to put down your cultivation and let you think "okay, let's go with normal life..." but do not give up.
Remember… the Buddha had said that everyone living in this world is crazy, by the phrase, “Sabbē prutajjana ummattakā”; excluding the Arahants, everyone else is crazy. Would you get angry if a mad person scolds? Do we get angry for a crazy thing done by a crazy person? Just think about it! :candle:
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TonyConrad
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by TonyConrad »

I think this should be counted as an intoxicant.
To me it is intoxicating, has led to porn, which led to ....

Destruction

It is the cause of suffering in the four noble truths.
They .. will not listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata ..are being recited. They will not lend ear, will not set their hearts on knowing them, will not regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. ..Thus from corrupt Dhamma comes corrupt discipline; from corrupt discipline, corrupt Dhamma.

This, monks, is the fourth future danger .. work to get rid of it.

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Saoshun
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Saoshun »

TonyConrad wrote:I think this should be counted as an intoxicant.
To me it is intoxicating, has led to porn, which led to ....

Destruction

It is the cause of suffering in the four noble truths.
Yes, there is no scheme for this because it's compulsive. It will drag some people down deeper but for some people it can be remedy for making stupid things related to sexual nature, relations etc.
Remember… the Buddha had said that everyone living in this world is crazy, by the phrase, “Sabbē prutajjana ummattakā”; excluding the Arahants, everyone else is crazy. Would you get angry if a mad person scolds? Do we get angry for a crazy thing done by a crazy person? Just think about it! :candle:
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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings »

TonyConrad wrote:I think this should be counted as an intoxicant.
To me it is intoxicating, has led to porn, which led to ....

Destruction

It is the cause of suffering in the four noble truths.
Don't blame masturbation. You, and you alone, are the one who makes the choice to act this way or that.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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