masturbation what's wrong?

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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:35 am

mario92 wrote:hi and thank you tiltbillings, i dont know it would be necesary but for now may i control myself and dont waste my energies in that. Thank you for the advice :smile:
Don't get into a struggle with yourself trying to control yourself. Simply pay attention. Watch what leads to your wanting to self pleasure yourself. The earlier you catch that the easier it is to redirect yourself to doing something else. But if you do self pleasure yourself, it is not a failure. Pay attention and see what it that you can learn about yourself. Be kind and compassionate to yourself.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

ricebowl
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by ricebowl » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:34 am

tiltbillings wrote:
mario92 wrote:hi and thank you tiltbillings, i dont know it would be necesary but for now may i control myself and dont waste my energies in that. Thank you for the advice :smile:
Don't get into a struggle with yourself trying to control yourself. Simply pay attention. Watch what leads to your wanting to self pleasure yourself. The earlier you catch that the easier it is to redirect yourself to doing something else. But if you do self pleasure yourself, it is not a failure. Pay attention and see what it that you can learn about yourself. Be kind and compassionate to yourself.
In a certain age like today metta is what the Buddha prescribed.
Being kind to oneself, being kind to others, I think that's important.
Sometimes being kind to one's parents/elders can be quite challenging, more challenging than being kind to oneself.
You notice how in the most basic theravada metta sutra the highest order is about not being born again in a womb.
In a nutshell, being born in a womb is suffering, being born *again* in a womb is even more suffering.
You see the thing is I started off being born in a womb this life, from the very moment I was born I knew just suffering.
Along with suffering came other issues like poverty, hardship, all the way till things like national wars and natural disasters.
In other words I know there is suffering, it made sense when the Buddha reiterated it, it's pleasurable when somebody says something agreeable conducive towards what I was experiencing. Then he said there was a prospect of enlightenment/nirvana.
I'm telling you, I will like to eat a milk cow.
There's nothing kind or compassionate about eating a milk cow, yet since I was a baby my family said I must not eat cows. Years have passed and I never ate a single beef patty knowingly.
Again I'm telling you, I will like to make a human baby.
There's nothing kind or compassionate about making a human baby, yet since I was a baby my family said I must not make babies, too. Years have passed and I never made a single fertilised egg knowingly.

Eating a milk cow so that we have yet another a human baby.
Sometimes I just wonder..

Is it that difficult .. or more so .. imho I have got a problem/trouble that doesn't seem worth solving by myself, I have little clue how you can help.

I bring back the Kalama Sutta which is where I began exploring Theravadin teachings. If I make a baby or eat a cow it has gotta be conducive i.e. beneficial towards the welfare of one and all, that's when it's meaningful. If I have gotta eat a cow in order to make a baby, I rather keep a cow alive BECAUSE I love cows more than babies!

On the issue of masturbation again.. what's wrong?
What is wrong-er than masturbation, is billing a Buddhist practitioner when he needs a helping hand with ejaculation, and then making Ananda confess about whorehouses in front of a Buddhist assembly and using it to teach an entire Mahayana Sutra that complicates matters more complex than teaching Rahula how to masturbate in a toilet.
Do you understand why it's necessary that the Buddha pari nirvana, or with a cruder phrase "pass away" at 79 or so?

Rahula needed to masturbate, Ananda needed a whore, how do you want these two young men back then to quarrel with a Buddha about it?

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Ben
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Ben » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:52 am

ricebowl wrote:Rahula needed to masturbate, Ananda needed a whore, how do you want these two young men back then to quarrel with a Buddha about it?
Really?
I suppose you have textual evidence of the above?
if so, please present it.
Thanks.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

ricebowl
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by ricebowl » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:06 am

Ben wrote:
ricebowl wrote:Rahula needed to masturbate, Ananda needed a whore, how do you want these two young men back then to quarrel with a Buddha about it?
Really?
I suppose you have textual evidence of the above?
if so, please present it.
Thanks.
Without respect lost, answering a question with questions:

How do I have textual evidence of myself masturbating?
How do I have textual evidence of you masturbating?
How do I have textual evidence of them masturbating?
How do I have textual evidence of any living being in the world masturbating?
How do I have textual evidence of myself masturbating?

How do I have videographic evidence of myself masturbating?
How do I have videographic evidence of you masturbating?
How do I have videographic evidence of them masturbating?
How do I have videographic evidence of any living being in the world masturbating?
How do I have videographic evidence of myself masturbating?

Do I know a monetary transaction when I see it?
Do I know a sexual intercourse when I see it?
Do I know a social interaction when I see it?

Do I know exertion when I see it?
Do I see my own exertion?
Do I know infliction when I see it?
Do I see my own infliction?
Do I know satisfaction when I see it?
Do I see my own satisfaction?

Do I know erection when I see it?
Do I see my own erection?
Do I know masturbation when I see it?
Do I see my own masturbation?
Do I know satisfaction when I see it?
Do I see my own satisfaction?

Do I know expression when I see it?
Do I see my own expression?
Do I know affliction when I see it?
Do I see my own affliction?
Do I know satisfaction when I see it?
Do I see my own satisfaction?

The Buddha didn't seem particularly concerned whether I was masturbating or otherwise, and the who/what/when/where/why/how/which masturbation happens.
Likewise a lay follower such as "me" doesn't seem particularly concerned how others are masturbating or otherwise, and the who/what/when/where/why/how/which masturbation happens.

The point is I am taught asking questions because a question serves a purpose; "what did you had for breakfast this morning", I took a look at my faeces this morning and it was olive drab in colour, an amusing change in colour tones when it was regularly dark brown. I asked myself "what did i had for breakfast this morning" i realise i had taken vermicelli with popiah, vegan meat, some vegetables that included lettuce and cabbage iirc, now the thing is why do I remember this? There is this cause, there is this effect. Now bring in karma again, i do this i get that, i don't do this i don't get that, which is fine. I ate vegan, I pooped olive drab poop, on other days I ate poultry, I pooped dark brown faeces. I seem to be what I eat from my head to my feet, and when that happens I say wow I can see samsara and karma in a human being itself without having supernatural powress.

Now what's wrong with masturbation again?
Why does a forum administrator ask me about evidence of masturbation?
Now what's wrong with masturbation again?

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Ben
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Ben » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:33 am

Ricebowl,
I don't give a rat's arse about your sex life.
If you read my question to you, I wanted you to indicate whether you have textual evidence in the tipitaka or commentarial literature of your contention that I highlighted and quoted above.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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kmath
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by kmath » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:08 pm

ricebowl wrote:
Ben wrote:
ricebowl wrote:Rahula needed to masturbate, Ananda needed a whore, how do you want these two young men back then to quarrel with a Buddha about it?
Really?
I suppose you have textual evidence of the above?
if so, please present it.
Thanks.
Without respect lost, answering a question with questions:

How do I have textual evidence of myself masturbating?
How do I have textual evidence of you masturbating?
How do I have textual evidence of them masturbating?
How do I have textual evidence of any living being in the world masturbating?
How do I have textual evidence of myself masturbating?

How do I have videographic evidence of myself masturbating?
How do I have videographic evidence of you masturbating?
How do I have videographic evidence of them masturbating?
How do I have videographic evidence of any living being in the world masturbating?
How do I have videographic evidence of myself masturbating?

Do I know a monetary transaction when I see it?
Do I know a sexual intercourse when I see it?
Do I know a social interaction when I see it?

Do I know exertion when I see it?
Do I see my own exertion?
Do I know infliction when I see it?
Do I see my own infliction?
Do I know satisfaction when I see it?
Do I see my own satisfaction?

Do I know erection when I see it?
Do I see my own erection?
Do I know masturbation when I see it?
Do I see my own masturbation?
Do I know satisfaction when I see it?
Do I see my own satisfaction?

Do I know expression when I see it?
Do I see my own expression?
Do I know affliction when I see it?
Do I see my own affliction?
Do I know satisfaction when I see it?
Do I see my own satisfaction?

The Buddha didn't seem particularly concerned whether I was masturbating or otherwise, and the who/what/when/where/why/how/which masturbation happens.
Likewise a lay follower such as "me" doesn't seem particularly concerned how others are masturbating or otherwise, and the who/what/when/where/why/how/which masturbation happens.

The point is I am taught asking questions because a question serves a purpose; "what did you had for breakfast this morning", I took a look at my faeces this morning and it was olive drab in colour, an amusing change in colour tones when it was regularly dark brown. I asked myself "what did i had for breakfast this morning" i realise i had taken vermicelli with popiah, vegan meat, some vegetables that included lettuce and cabbage iirc, now the thing is why do I remember this? There is this cause, there is this effect. Now bring in karma again, i do this i get that, i don't do this i don't get that, which is fine. I ate vegan, I pooped olive drab poop, on other days I ate poultry, I pooped dark brown faeces. I seem to be what I eat from my head to my feet, and when that happens I say wow I can see samsara and karma in a human being itself without having supernatural powress.

Now what's wrong with masturbation again?
Why does a forum administrator ask me about evidence of masturbation?
Now what's wrong with masturbation again?
What a strange, long-winded answer to such a simple question.

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cooran
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by cooran » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:46 pm

Hello Ricebowl,

You were asked to give Sutta quotations to back up your allegations agains the Arahants Rahula and Ananda of masturbation and using a prostitute.

Please do so.

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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convivium
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by convivium » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:43 pm

i don't think right or wrong are particularly relevant to this question; i think this must be a western imputation. rather, i think observing effects of dukkha and tracing them to causes of tanha is more relevant. you know that pain is real by feeling a lot of it; you know that fire burns by putting your hand over it.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

daverupa
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by daverupa » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:42 pm

cooran wrote:Hello Ricebowl,

You were asked to give Sutta quotations to back up your allegations agains the Arahants Rahula and Ananda of masturbation and using a prostitute.

Please do so.

With metta,
Chris
Probably this is coming from the Śūraṅgama Sūtra, which I found discussed here.
SETTING

When Ananda was passing a brothel on his begging rounds...
Nothing that supports the claim, but here at least may be the cite. As was said, "...using it to teach an entire Mahayana Sutra..."
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

Babadhari
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Babadhari » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:00 pm

poor ricebowl disappeared after the post.... :shrug:
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28

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andyebarnes67
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by andyebarnes67 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:44 pm

I have only just come to this thread so I apologise if I am repeating someone else's thoughts. I did start reading the posts, but there are sooo many :tongue:
this is a question I have struggled with myself for a long time.
As a layman, i have however, intentionally remained single for some years and I do call myself 'celibate', although, as I say, masturbation is, let's say, a grey area.
The whole matter of whether celibacy includes total sexual abstension, or just relational sexual activity is itself one of contention.
I certainly don't consider masturbation a violation of the third precept, although errant fantasy, possibly.
My main reason for choosing to remain single is in order to give myself the best chance of developing my own non-attachment and since I don't have to 'restrain' myself (I'm actually happier single), I see no contradiction.
This brings me to my main point.
If one has to repress one's 'sexual needs' in order to adhere to an idea of what one should do, then this, itself, creates an attachment, perhaps more so, than simply jacking one off would do.
After a vipassana course I attended some years ago, an 18 year old student shared that he was very confused as he thought that he might not be able to ever have children if he made vipassana a part of his life.
It was explained to him, that it wasn't the partaking of, or even the enjoyment of, an act, but the attachment to it, that created dukkha.
I think there will perhaps come the time when I have moved nearer to enlightenment where the desire for physical gratification simply wouldn't arise anymore, and so, I would no longer masturbate, but for now at least, I have managed to not worry so much about it, having realised, as I have said, that the worry itself, was causing more dukkha than simply addressing the physical desire in as non-attached way as possible, would do.
:namaste:
Metta
:meditate:
Andy Barnes
My comments are by nature, subjective interpretations from my mind. As such, they are never wrong, They are as they are. They are never right, They are as they are.

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convivium
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by convivium » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:38 pm

what not masturbating as a rule does is gives you something to commit yourself to, namely, brahmacariya. but that's not limited to not orgasming at all so if that's what your commitming yourself to then there's no need to focus on that. all commitments are in an objective sense arbitrary. in a subjective sense perhaps the only source for genuine meaning.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

knighter
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self pleasure or drink?

Post by knighter » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:58 am

Hello all

which would be the more karma producing act, self pleasure or drinking alcohol?
And i don't mean drinking to access or self pleasuring everyday i mean taking 2 beers a week
and self pleasuring once a week, in moderation.
Be happy
knighter

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ihrjordan
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Re: self pleasure or drink?

Post by ihrjordan » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:17 am

They're both bad for you and should be done away with. They don't make you any happier, so why do them? It's better to walk the path of renunciation and taste what true happiness is.
Last edited by ihrjordan on Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"

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Mkoll
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Re: self pleasure or drink?

Post by Mkoll » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:19 am

By self-pleasure, you mean masturbation?

If so, I'd say drinking breaks the 5th precept whereas I don't think masturbation breaks the 3rd.

But of course its better kamma to refrain from both.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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