Monarchy

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Ceisiwr
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Monarchy

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:03 am

With the rise of engaged Buddhism I’ve been thinking about my own politics and the Dhamma. Personally I’m a Tory, which naturally entails support for the continuation of the British Monarchy. My politics has grown further to the right in terms of handing more powers back to the sovereign which have been eroded over the centuries. Lately I’ve entertained the idea that such a transference of power can be compatible with the Dhamma since to be born a monarch is to have had a fortunate rebirth and so the monarch does have a Buddhist version of the divine right of kings. Thoughts?

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Re: Monarchy

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:10 am

Greetings Ceisiwr,
Ceisiwr wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:03 am
Lately I’ve entertained the idea that such a transference of power can be compatible with the Dhamma since to be born a monarch is to have had a fortunate rebirth and so the monarch does have a Buddhist version of the divine right of kings. Thoughts?
I think this aspect of the topic can be pursued profitably here from the Theravadin context at DWT, but I fear that which came before it is likely to send us spiralling off into political commentary.

So... what I'm going to do is to move this topic to "Hot Topics" to prevent that happening. However, if you wish to explore the topic more fully, Dharma Wheel Engaged may be your best bet.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Monarchy

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:17 am

Fair enough :)

SarathW
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Re: Monarchy

Post by SarathW » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:44 am

Do you think Harry will be a Universal Monarch?
:tongue:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32961
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Re: Monarchy

Post by samsarictravelling » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:46 am

Ceisiwr wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:03 am
With the rise of engaged Buddhism I’ve been thinking about my own politics and the Dhamma. Personally I’m a Tory, which naturally entails support for the continuation of the British Monarchy. My politics has grown further to the right in terms of handing more powers back to the sovereign which have been eroded over the centuries. Lately I’ve entertained the idea that such a transference of power can be compatible with the Dhamma since to be born a monarch is to have had a fortunate rebirth and so the monarch does have a Buddhist version of the divine right of kings. Thoughts?
In Theravada Buddhism, I think I read that a being could be reborn as a deva, but right on their death they could even go to hell (if the kamma is so). Again: a deva after they died, can go even to hell in the subsequent rebirth. You can find that in one or more suttas in one of the Nikayas translated (or "co-translated", in the case of the Majjhima Nikaya) into English by Bhikkhu Bodhi, from Wisdom Publications.

As well, I read, royalty went to hell after they died, because they acted in an aDhamma (not Dhamma) way or ways while as royalty -- or, instead, I might have read instead some past kamma from a life before that caught up with each one of them, but that is unlikely? (I can't remember which reason for all of them going to hell right after their royal births ended.) From Theravada Buddhism, too, I think. And from the Nikayas, I would guess. So, being born into royalty does not guarantee you will act properly, which would lead to the next rebirth in hell possibly, if I read the story correctly. I hope another or others here can supply the source of the story.

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I might not reply to any reply post to this, so please excuse me.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Monarchy

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:07 am

SarathW wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:44 am
Do you think Harry will be a Universal Monarch?
:tongue:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32961
It’s very unlikely that he will be monarch but if he were to be im sure he would be a fine one as the majority of British monarchs have been.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Monarchy

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:08 am

samsarictravelling wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:46 am
Ceisiwr wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:03 am
With the rise of engaged Buddhism I’ve been thinking about my own politics and the Dhamma. Personally I’m a Tory, which naturally entails support for the continuation of the British Monarchy. My politics has grown further to the right in terms of handing more powers back to the sovereign which have been eroded over the centuries. Lately I’ve entertained the idea that such a transference of power can be compatible with the Dhamma since to be born a monarch is to have had a fortunate rebirth and so the monarch does have a Buddhist version of the divine right of kings. Thoughts?
In Theravada Buddhism, I think I read that a being could be reborn as a deva, but right on their death they could even go to hell (if the kamma is so). Again: a deva after they died, can go even to hell in the subsequent rebirth. You can find that in one or more suttas in one of the Nikayas translated (or "co-translated", in the case of the Majjhima Nikaya) into English by Bhikkhu Bodhi, from Wisdom Publications.

As well, I read, royalty went to hell after they died, because they acted in an aDhamma (not Dhamma) way or ways while as royalty -- or, instead, I might have read instead some past kamma from a life before that caught up with each one of them, but that is unlikely? (I can't remember which reason for all of them going to hell right after their royal births ended.) From Theravada Buddhism, too, I think. And from the Nikayas, I would guess. So, being born into royalty does not guarantee you will act properly, which would lead to the next rebirth in hell possibly, if I read the story correctly. I hope another or others here can supply the source of the story.

From,
samsarictravelling
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I might not reply to any reply post to this, so please excuse me.

But ones birth is always deserved in all of those scenarios, yes ;)

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Re: Monarchy

Post by DooDoot » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:24 am

Ceisiwr wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:03 am
Lately I’ve entertained the idea that such a transference of power can be compatible with the Dhamma since to be born a monarch is to have had a fortunate rebirth and so the monarch does have a Buddhist version of the divine right of kings. Thoughts?
Where exactly do the suttas teach the above? Thanks
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Re: Monarchy

Post by DNS » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:42 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:24 am
Ceisiwr wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:03 am
Lately I’ve entertained the idea that such a transference of power can be compatible with the Dhamma since to be born a monarch is to have had a fortunate rebirth and so the monarch does have a Buddhist version of the divine right of kings. Thoughts?
Where exactly do the suttas teach the above? Thanks
"So it is the way people live that makes them how they are, whether short-lived or long lived, sickly or healthy, ugly or lovely, insignificant or illustrious, poor or rich, in a low class or eminent family, or witless or wise. Sentient beings are the owners of their deeds and heir to their deeds. Deeds are their womb, their relative, and their refuge. It is deeds that divide beings into inferior and superior.
https://suttacentral.net/mn135/en/sujato

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Re: Monarchy

Post by DooDoot » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:48 am

Where else? Thanks
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

Dan74
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Re: Monarchy

Post by Dan74 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:13 am

Ceisiwr wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:03 am
to be born a monarch is to have had a fortunate rebirth and so the monarch does have a Buddhist version of the divine right of kings. Thoughts?
This seems to me to fall apart on a number of grounds.

Firstly, a cursory perusal of history will show any number of monarchs brutalising their subjects and leading their countries to ruin.

Secondly, even if some kammic merit leads to one being born a monarch, it does not follow that they will either do their job well, not that their people should hand them more powers or a carte blanche to do as they wish.

Argumentum ad hitlerium must read its ugly head here, since then it can be argued that everyone had the kamma to be exactly what they were, including our friend Adolf, your abusive ex-boyfriend and the psychopathic boss of Hate Inc. Does it give them any rights to do their evil?
_/|\_

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Monarchy

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:19 am

Dan74 wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:13 am
Ceisiwr wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:03 am
to be born a monarch is to have had a fortunate rebirth and so the monarch does have a Buddhist version of the divine right of kings. Thoughts?
This seems to me to fall apart on a number of grounds.

Firstly, a cursory perusal of history will show any number of monarchs brutalising their subjects and leading their countries to ruin.

Secondly, even if some kammic merit leads to one being born a monarch, it does not follow that they will either do their job well, not that their people should hand them more powers or a carte blanche to do as they wish.

Argumentum ad hitlerium must read its ugly head here, since then it can be argued that everyone had the kamma to be exactly what they were, including our friend Adolf, your abusive ex-boyfriend and the psychopathic boss of Hate Inc. Does it give them any rights to do their evil?
Hitler wasn't a monarch. Most monarchs in history did more good than harm.

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Re: Monarchy

Post by SarathW » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:40 am

Hitler wasn't a monarch. Most monarchs in history did more good than harm.
I am not sure of that.
Even present British monarch lineage was responsible for the Hiroshima nuclear bombing.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Monarchy

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:45 am

SarathW wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:40 am
Hitler wasn't a monarch. Most monarchs in history did more good than harm.
I am not sure of that.
Even present British monarch lineage was responsible for the Hiroshima nuclear bombing.
That was joint with the US and it was an expedient way to bring a swift end to the bloodiest wars in human history. It was more cruel to continue with the war against the Empire of the Sun with conventional means.

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Re: Monarchy

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:49 am

:focus:
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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