Dhamma that triggers SJWs

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by retrofuturist » Thu May 23, 2019 2:26 am

Greetings Mike,
mikenz66 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:56 am
I'm not sure how you read "globalism" into it.
I have understood "all sovereignty is Bliss" as meaning that any relinquishment or surrender of sovereignty is the opposite of bliss.

Thus...

- Relinquishment of personal sovereignty (e.g. autonomy, individual rights) is the opposite of bliss.
- Relinquishment of "local" sovereignty (e.g. surrendering sovereignty to a less local entity) is the opposite of bliss.

To your point about "the advantage of protection by an organisation", the sovereign entity needs to have the means to defend and enforce its own sovereignty. At an individual level, this could be in the form of individual rights, and the right to self-defense. At an organisational level, that's the police, border patrols, army etc. referred to before, as well as the mechanisms underpinning and supporting law and order, which allow individuals to maintain their individual sovereignty in a civilized society.

This is how I understand the teaching of the suttas, applied to our timeline.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by retrofuturist » Thu May 23, 2019 2:41 am

Greetings Mike,
retrofuturist wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:53 am
Yes, the case of the SJW "warring" against the traditional Dhamma practitioner and their practice, ....
mikenz66 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:17 am
I'm not sure who exactly these naughty SJW's are.
Bountiful examples can be found, merely through searching this forum's archives, but I trust that's not required.

For the sake of expediency, and to prevent this topic going off-track, I'll just stick to the well-trodden issue of vegetarian zealotry referred to earlier in this topic. (See: The great vegetarian debate)
Mike wrote: All I see is people providing opinions, and of course political opinions, and opinions about how these opinions align with the Dhamma vary. Just because some think that certain rulers and/or modern developments in society are a bad thing, and speak against them doesn't necessarily mean that are not "Traditional Practitioners".
If what they agitate for is in contrast to what is found in the suttas, then that is the reality. No amount of political correctness or moral relativism erases or offsets the disparity. As Budo said earlier...
budo wrote:The definition of discernment is seeing the differences in things, not denying the differences in things.
This is an issue for the so-called "Cafeteria Buddhist", whether they discern it or not.
Mike wrote:Since no-one here (as far as I can tell) is qualified to pass final judgement on who is or is not a "Real Traditional Dhamma Practitioner", it is good that the TOS states that:
At Dhamma Wheel, we respect your intellectual and spiritual autonomy.
Indeed.

But just as we can point to the Ani Sutta or Simsapa Sutta to deny the providence of Mahayana Buddhism to Theravada Buddhism, we can point to sutta, as has been done, to deny the providence of Left-Wing Buddhism (左翼佛教), "SJW-ism", or other paths that may exist apart from Theravada Buddhism.
Mike wrote:We can read the arguments and make up our own mind. I doubt that any two of the Members of this forum would agree on every issue...
Agreed, and it is good to see that such discussion can occur, here at this forum.

Likewise, it is good that...
TOS 1 wrote:Dhamma Wheel is an environment for the discussion of Theravada Buddhism. Special forums have been created for special areas of interest so please respect these boundaries.
TOS 3i wrote:The following actions are not permitted at Dhamma Wheel:... Proselytizing or evangelizing other spiritual paths
TOS 4 wrote:Speech and actions are moderated strictly and impartially according to the standards defined in the Terms of Service - not to the standard of ... personal preference, nor any other code and/or standard of conduct.
:buddha1:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by retrofuturist » Thu May 23, 2019 5:32 am

Greetings,

As stated earlier...
retrofuturist wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 2:38 am
Greetings,

:rules:

Hi everyone. We don't want to get into discussion about SJW's, in and of themselves, here at Dhamma Wheel.

This topic is connected to the Dhamma, and needs to remain connected to the Dhamma moving forward... and discussion of SJW's, in and of themselves, is not that.

Instead, I would recommend topics at Dharma Wheel Engaged, such as Hellish Psyche of SJWs or What is an SJW? where these matters could be more profitably explored.

If this topic gets too far off track, it might find its way to the Hot Topics section, where each individual post will require moderator confirmation that it is on topic.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
Even though the conversation hasn't drifted from those parameters, we've taken the precautionary measure of the moving this topic to the Hot Topics section, as there is a risk of it potentially spiralling out of control, if a period of time passes where staff are unable to monitor the topic. Apologies for the inconvenience, and thank you for your understanding.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by Mr Man » Thu May 23, 2019 6:02 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:50 am


Trigger warning
Paul, why do you keep saying “trigger warning “?

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by retrofuturist » Thu May 23, 2019 6:08 am

Greetings Mr Man,
Mr Man wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:02 am
Paul, why do you keep saying “trigger warning “?
A "trigger warning" is defined as "a statement at the start of a piece of writing, video, etc. alerting the reader or viewer to the fact that it contains potentially distressing material (often used to introduce a description of such content)."

It has been used in this context because I wanted to share "on topic material" without actually triggering anyone.

Putting the warning up front, enables the individual to make their own call on whether something they're about to read might be "triggering" for them, personally.

The jury is still out about whether they are effective, but it's a courtesy I wanted to offer, nonetheless, in accord with our policy of respect for the autonomy of others.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by Mr Man » Thu May 23, 2019 6:17 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:08 am
Greetings Mr Man,
Mr Man wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:02 am
Paul, why do you keep saying “trigger warning “?
A "trigger warning" is
I know what a “trigger warning” is. Do you think trigger warnings are needed in this thread? I don’t.

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by budo » Thu May 23, 2019 7:24 am

binocular wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:50 pm
budo wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:19 am
I already did clarify, retrofuturist.
I wrote
To get people to see which dhamma they pick and choose (Cafeteria Buddhists). Interesting to see the Mahayanists / Visuddhimaggists on this forum use the "It's not authentic card" when it suits them, but when it comes to Zen / Vipassana, they turn a blind eye.

I am an EBT follower, I don't necessarily follow these Jataka tales because I do not know which are authentic or not until Bhikkhu Analayo and other monks are done with their research with comparing parallels (agamas, ghandaran fragments, etc..). But it's interesting to see those who accept ALL Buddhism reject this because it conflicts with their PC ideology.
You don't believe is any kind of rebirth from one lifetime to the next. By your own definition, that means you pick and choose, and makes you a "cafeteria Buddhist".
You're criticising people for doing the exact same thing as you do. The only difference is that their pet peeve is misogyny, while yours is rebirth.

So ... what gives?
Are you sure you're not confusing me with another member?

I believe in rebirth, and EBT has a lot on rebirth..

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by retrofuturist » Thu May 23, 2019 7:29 am

Greetings Mr Man,
Mr Man wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:17 am
I know what a “trigger warning” is. Do you think trigger warnings are needed in this thread? I don’t.
You can choose to use them, or not to, as you see fit.

I have explained my reasoning and am content with that. Further, it's consistent with our practice of replacing embedded asubha images with a URL link, warning people what they're clicking through to.

Anyway, that's enough meta-discussion. It's not adding anything of substance to the topic.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by budo » Thu May 23, 2019 8:29 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:24 pm
I'm devastated to have achieved no replies to my post: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34395&start=45#p513656 where I provided some quotes where the Buddha suggested how a woman should position herself to be in control of the household. :cry:

Perhaps those are the sort of suttas that the monks in my local Wat use in their Dhamma talks to keep the women coming back.... :thinking:

:heart:
Mike
‘Having been born into a suitable family, and married into a suitable family, and living at home without a co-wife, and having had children, may I master my husband!’
Notice the word "co-wife", men could have many wives at that time, as is seen in the sutta where a lay disciple decides to become celibate and tells his many wives they're free to leave if they wish and only one or two stay from what I remember. So it seems like a woman masters her husband when he decides to not have a harem, aka he drops his other women/wives. :)

Basically, the woman is treating the man so well he has no desire for more women. I've seen this in polyamorous men, who give up their friends with benefits or other "Girlfriends", for a woman who is more valuable to them.

This sutta seems to be saying that a woman masters her husband when he decides to be monogamous with her.

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by retrofuturist » Thu May 23, 2019 8:52 am

Greetings budo,
budo wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:29 am
Notice the word "co-wife", men could have many wives at that time, as is seen in the sutta where a lay disciple decides to become celibate and tells his many wives they're free to leave if they wish and only one or two stay from what I remember.
I wonder if that is also why (to best of my recollection, at least) why "sexual activity with anyone other than your wife" is not listed under the definition of the lay precept for sexual misconduct, which instead reads...
AN 10.167 wrote:He engages in sensual misconduct. He gets sexually involved with those who are protected by their mothers, their fathers, their brothers, their sisters, their relatives, or their Dhamma; those with husbands, those who entail punishments, or even those crowned with flowers by another man. This is how one is made impure in three ways by bodily action.
Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by mikenz66 » Thu May 23, 2019 8:52 am

budo wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:29 am
This sutta seems to be saying that a woman masters her husband when he decides to be monogamous with her.
Hmm, Interesting. The point I was particularly interested in, which I think Samvara picked up, was the husband handing over the running of the household, including the finances, to the wife.

:heart:
Mike

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by Ceisiwr » Thu May 23, 2019 9:04 am

I wonder what advice those in homosexual marriages can draw from said passages?

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by retrofuturist » Thu May 23, 2019 9:07 am

Greetings Ceisiwr,
Ceisiwr wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:04 am
I wonder what advice those in homosexual marriages can draw from said passages?
It's a good question, and inspiring to see you trying to draw wisdom from the suttas to contemplate how they apply to a modern situation, rather than forcefully shoehorn modern secular norms back into the Dhamma.

Cudos.

:anjali:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by DooDoot » Thu May 23, 2019 9:49 am

Ceisiwr wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:04 am
I wonder what advice those in homosexual marriages can draw from said passages?
Recently in Australia there was a vote on Gay Marriage, which I voted against. Unfortunately the vote was rigged, in that it did not include a third option of gay civil union. I doubt there is my much in any sutta about women that should be drawn upon by gay men. Gay men should draw upon general Dhamma principles rather than project their tendencies upon teachings about women.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Dhamma that triggers SJWs

Post by Ceisiwr » Thu May 23, 2019 9:59 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:49 am
Ceisiwr wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:04 am
I wonder what advice those in homosexual marriages can draw from said passages?
Recently in Australia there was a vote on Gay Marriage, which I voted against. Unfortunately the vote was rigged, in that it did not include a third option of gay civil union. I doubt there is my much in any sutta about women that should be drawn upon by gay men. Gay men should draw upon general Dhamma principles rather than project their tendencies upon teachings about women.
It would be a queer thing to include that if the question was about marriage.

I disagree. The precept on sexual misconduct for example has general principles which were tailored to the cultural context of the time, which had different social attitudes and norms. From a first reading into the suttas above I get the message that within a relationship it’s good to have defined roles, to have one parent look after the child and to be attentive to your partner which are easily translatable into gay marriages.

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