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Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:18 am
by Ceisiwr
DooDoot wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:15 am
clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:13 am
In relation to the clip I agree that PC attitudes have become corrosive and stifling. Free speech should be the ideal, which in turn means all the other freedoms too.
I don't recall ever suggesting any wrong paths to you. :heart:
clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:15 am
Straw man (as per usual for you). You accused him of holding certain views without knowing his views.
No. I accused him/her of the CM method of character assassination.

Sigh. You accused him of having certain views that aren’t in accord with the Dhamma despite not knowing his views. Do be a man and try to admit to a mistake instead of trying to save face.

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:19 am
by DooDoot
clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:18 am
You accused him of having certain views that aren’t in accord with the Dhamma despite not knowing his views.
I know his views. His views are "because a monk is talking to a Nazi, the monk has zero validity". Buddhism does not support this manner of thinking.
clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:18 am
Do be a man and try to admit to a mistake instead of trying to save face.
Is this comment sexist?

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:21 am
by Ceisiwr
Yes, I listened to the clip that you recommended and i agree with the sentiment that PC attitudes and worry about causing offence have gone to far, hence why I said I support free speech and all the other negative freedoms with it. I fully support your right to say what you like (as long as it isn’t a direct threat etc) even if it’s ridiculous (or not) since sunlight is the best disinfectant or way to spread what is good.

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:23 am
by Ceisiwr
DooDoot wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:19 am
clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:18 am
You accused him of having certain views that aren’t in accord with the Dhamma despite not knowing his views.
I know his views. His views are "because a monk is talking to a Nazi, the monk has zero validity". Buddhism does not support this manner of thinking.

No. You accused him of having leftist views which you then claimed aren’t in accord with the Dhamma. You don’t know what his political beliefs are.

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:23 am
by DooDoot
clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:23 am
No. You accused him of having leftist views which you then claimed aren’t in accord with the Dhamma. You don’t know what his political beliefs are.
U are misinterpreting what i said. :spy:

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:24 am
by Ceisiwr
DooDoot
Is this comment sexist?
Are you a woman nick? If not then it’s entirely relevant.

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:26 am
by Ceisiwr
DooDoot wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:23 am
clw_uk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:21 am
Yes, I listened to the clip that you recommended and i agree with the sentiment that PC attitudes and worry about causing offence have gone to far
Have you become a Nazi? :rofl:

Yes nick, I’m a gay Buddhist who is also a National Socialist :?


I didn’t misrepresent what you said. You accused him of having a set of beliefs and then attacked him by saying those views were not in accord with Buddhism despite you not knowing what his views are (and he subsequently stated he isn’t a leftist).

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:32 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings,

OK, this topic has spiralled out of control and is moving to the Hot Topics section.

Please be patient while we clean up the off-topic chat.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 8:38 am
by Bhikkhu Pesala
Monks and nuns should be mindful, and teach the practice of mindfulness. It is OK to advise others how to live in harmony with others, and how to work for the greater good of society.

Politics looks outwards at society in general and at the behaviour of other people in particular. It thinks that suffering can be removed by manipulating external conditions.

Religion looks inwards at one's own actions, speech, and thoughts. It teaches that suffering can only be removed by removing the root causes, which lie within each individual. I can advise and instruct others on what is wholesome or unwholesome, what they should study, or how to meditate. That is one duty of a monk or nun, but I cannot remove the defilements of others; I can only remove my own defilements (that is the other duty of a monk or nun).

“Disregard the faults of others, things done and left undone by others,
but examine the deeds done and not done by oneself.” (Dhp v 50)

“As a lovely flower that is beautiful, but scentless,
the well-spoken word of one who does not practise is fruitless.” (Dhp v 51)

“As a lovely flower that is beautiful and fragrant,
the well-spoken word of one who practises it bears fruit.” (Dhp v 52)

“As from a heap of flowers many a garland is made, even so,
many good deeds should be done by one born a mortal.” (Dhp v 53)

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 11:18 am
by seeker242
Monks and Nuns should do what they feel is appropriate.

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 1:45 pm
by mettafuture
Absolutely. If they wish to be. The Buddha told lay followers to be "accomplished in ethical conduct and encourage others to do the same" (AN 8.26). The Buddha likely gave monastics similar instruction. Personally, I can't remain silent and detached when I know someone's politics are causing harm to others.

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:12 am
by Jerafreyr
mettafuture wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 1:45 pm
Absolutely. If they wish to be. The Buddha told lay followers to be "accomplished in ethical conduct and encourage others to do the same" (AN 8.26). The Buddha likely gave monastics similar instruction. Personally, I can't remain silent and detached when I know someone's politics are causing harm to others.
The Buddha was an anarchist.

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:14 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings Jerafreyr,
Jerafreyr wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:12 am
The Buddha was an anarchist.
On what basis do you come to that conclusion?!

It's hard to envisage how an anarchist could devise a set of rules as complex at the Vinaya, but by all means explain your position.

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:21 am
by SarathW
anarchist.

synonyms:

nihilist · insurgent · agitator · subversive · guerrilla · terrorist ·

Re: Should nuns and monks be political?

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:23 am
by Jerafreyr
retrofuturist wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:14 am
Greetings Jerafreyr,
Jerafreyr wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:12 am
The Buddha was an anarchist.
On what basis do you come to that conclusion?!

It's hard to envisage how an anarchist could devise a set of rules as complex at the Vinaya, but by all means explain your position.

Metta,
Paul. :)
I can only answer that with a question.
What sort of laws do you think the Buddha would enforce for worldlings?